I watched the parents of this kid on the news tonight, who, along with their lawyer (which implies the threat of legal action to me) stated that the father told police their son did not have a real gun. That’s what inspired this rant.
Oh, your son had a fake gun? Tough shit. You expect a SWAT team to take the time to examine when someone aims it at them? I don’t care if they had heard that it was fake. Until they personally checked it out there was no way to verify that. Furthermore, it was outwardly identical to a famous 9mm handgun that any police officer would be recognize on sight.
I’m sorry your kid had a mental breakdown because his girlfriend broke up with him. That’s too goddamn bad. I’d love to see how he would handle an adult problem. My guess is that it would be much the same way - walk into his workplace with a gun and hope that the police killed him. Now some cop has to live with this on his conscience because your son had a weak grasp of reality.
You think the cops are going to hold off on using deadly force because you claim you had no real guns in your house? He fucking aimed it at the officer.
If this had been a week after Columbine, would anyone be giving 2 shits what the parents said about it? People would be asking why the cops hadn’t killed him faster, and why the parents hadn’t done something to stop it.
Any way you could provide a link or something? I looked on the front page of several news websites and see nothing about this, and given the info at hand I’ve been unable to goolge it.
I think it was down south someplace. Like FLA maybe. But he has the essentials right from the NPR story I heard.
I mean, sorry, but you point a realistic looking weapon at a person when you KNOW SWAT members are pointing guns at you and I think there’s little else to expect.
It’s like that old military phrase I once heard: “If you point a weapon at a Marine you should EXPECT to die.”
The gun in that photo looks JUST like any real large-caliber handgun. I’d have shot him, too. There’s just no other way this could have gone down, from what I can gather. Tragic, but inevitable.
Only… He wasn’t pointing a weapon at a marine. Or any other member of the armed forces. He pointed it at police officers, who, even if they got to wear the Gestapo-gear with “SWAT” in yellow letters on the back, are NOT the military and are NOT supposed to act like the military.
If the police were told by multiple people that the kid did not have a real gun, I don’t think they should have used deadly force to subdue him. Would that have been risky? Yup. Could it have turned out to be a real gun? Sure. But it’s a risk they should have taken.
So, what if the multiple people been mistaken or the kid flat out lied to them and said it was fake when it was a real 9mm loaded with real bullets? How many shots should the kid have been able to get off before the use of deadly force would be acceptable in your eyes?
I’m so glad someone pitted this! I couldn’t believe the attorney thing. Just what, pray tell, do you need an attorney for now? It’s not likely your deceased son will be brought up on charges for all the crimes he committed.
Oh wait, maybe the atttorney is to represent them in all of the suits that will be brought against them for their son’s actions.
What gets me is the people second-guessing the cops. “Couldn’t they have aimed for a kneecap or a hand or some non-lethal part of the body?” Um…I’m pretty sure the he wasn’t aiming for the SWAT guy’s knee. Not that it would matter anyway.
All of the early reports I heard stated that the kid was saying he wanted to kill himself or be killed. Suicide by cop, anyone?
But were the police “told by multiple people”? I thought they were told only by the kid’s dad that the gun was fake. And gee, is it so inconcievable a crazed kid’s dad might bullshit the cops about his kid’s harmlessness?
And yes, cops are not military. That doesn’t mean they like getting shot. The military are more likely than police to shoot people who aren’t pointing guns at them (or aren’t yet), but anyone and everyone who carries a gun is likely to shoot someone pointing a gun at them. Or any reasonable facsimile of a gun. You don’t get a free shot before they’re allowed to return fire, sorry.
They had been told it wasn’t a real gun. By two independent witnesses. They new the victim was suicidal, and should have suspected he was merely going for a suicide-by-cop (it’s not uncommon).
That’s sufficient reason to use non-lethal force, instead of sending in a SWAT team.
I’d add the caveat that I can’t find where I read about the witnesses–if the police hadn’t been told by someone it wasn’t a real gun, I’d feel differently about this.
Fault isn’t exclusive. The kid is responsible for his own murder, as are the police officers who shot him.
I don’t know. Still can’t find anything but the dad. If it was just the dad, I’d move the fault slider away from the cops and more towards the kid. But it still doesn’t sound like they handled it particularly well.
Never said they did. Just think they should be willing to risk getting shot instead of killing a 15-year old with a pellet gun.
This all took place in Seminole County, FL. just a couple dozen miles from here. I have met and talked to Sheriff Eslinger before and I suspect he and the Deputy involved are sick about this thing. It is sad and unfortunate but the fault lies where it lies; with the boy. There are some things in life you cannot do and survive.
This is one of them. My heart goes out to the parents. I can’t imagine their loss.
Earlier today a man decided to kill himself by jumping off an interstate overpass (Lake Mary/I-4) down into rush hour traffic. It worked all too well. He was a friend of some members of our family.
Same rule applies.
And even then, they’d have to see what, if anything, he hits, right? Because the cops would be way out of line using deadly force if he was only shooting in their direction and well over their heads, not at them.
I’m sorry, your fault slider needs some re-calibration. I think yours is a little off.
I’m still a little unclear on this. Was the dad telling them over the phone or was he at the scene? If it is the latter, wouldn’t it have been more useful to plead with his son to put down the fake gun than yelling at the cops that the gun was fake?
If you make people think that you have a real gun, they are going to treat you as though you have a real gun. For the sake of argument, if he hadn’t been shot in the exchange, would it have mattered? I mean, aren’t the charges the same whether you use a real firearm or a fake one that is made to look real?
But if they have reason to suspect that it isn’t a real gun, and that you’re suicidal and not homicidal, they shouldn’t treat you as if you had a real gun and were about to shoot someone.
Yes. He’d be alive. That’s more important then the legal repercussions he’d have faced.