I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1)

[Bricker]

@Richard_Parker

Says the guy who thinks progressive taxation is tantamount to Marxism. Does it anger you that we’re living in such a Socialist dystopia, Bricker? I don’t think you have your finger on the pulse of American opinion, notwithstanding your correct call of the 2014 mid-terms.

The truth is that lots of people are concerned about voter disenfranchisement, all the way up through our nation’s highest law enforcement official. The fact that it doesn’t make good politics to blame losses on stripping early voting or same-day registration doesn’t mean no one cares.

If you think that NC officials got rid of same-day registration for any reason other than the fact that 33,000 African-Americans used it last time, you’re the one who deeply deluded.

I don’t agree.

Our nation’s soon-to-be-former highest law enforcement official, eh?

And how many voters has his concern saved?

He wants to help, he should set up a 1-800 line and buy a taxi or two, so people can get picked up at one of the seventeen simultaneous jobs that it’s always claimed they work so they can get to the DMV (located behind a bunker, under another bunker, with a sign in front that says “Beware of the leopard.”)

Our nation’s AG is well aware that the bulk of such calls are bunk; he finds it politically expedient to join the chorus.

I don’t have my opinion on the pulse of America?

What do YOU think the popularity of Voter ID laws is?

[iiandyiiii]

@Bricker

Our nation’s AG is well aware that the bulk of such calls are bunk; he finds it politically expedient to join the chorus.

Of course. No one could honestly and intelligently come to disagree with Bricker – anyone who disagrees with Bricker must either be dishonest or stupid. :rolleyes:

[Richard_Parker]

I think you’re coming a little unhinged, friend Bricker.

Is Eric Holder still the Attorney General or not? Is Obama still the twice-elected President? Why would you possibly think the concerns of his Attorney General are not someone “who matters”? Is there a single individual who matters more in this context? Why don’t you ask Texas about that.

It’s just genuinely bizarre to claim that no one who matters cares about disenfranchisement. It is so obviously false that it makes we worry about you.

[Bricker]

@Richard_Parker

I think you’re coming a little unhinged, friend Bricker.

Is Eric Holder still the Attorney General or not? Is Obama still the twice-elected President? Why would you possibly think the concerns of his Attorney General are not someone “who matters”?

Well, I consider “someone who matters” as someone who can actually change the situation, as opposed to someone who can merely bleat about the issue.

What Voter ID law has Holder changed?

Is there a single individual who matters more in this context? Why don’t you ask Texas about that.

Why don’t you read the procedural history of Veasey v. Perry and then tell me how many Texas voters were saved from unspeakable horror by the stalwart Holder?

Or give me your best guess: how many will be saved when the dust settles?

[Shayna]

@Richard_Parker

If you think that NC officials got rid of same-day registration for any reason other than the fact that 33,000 African-Americans used it last time, you’re the one who deeply deluded.

Deeply, deeply deluded. And he likes it that way. He’s a black-hearted, evil prick, just like most of the rest of the fucksticks in his party.

@Bricker

What do YOU think the popularity of Voter ID laws is?

White People Support Voter ID Laws More After Seeing Black People Voting

*“Our findings suggest that public opinion about voter ID laws can be racialized by simply showing images of African American people,” David C. Wilson, who helped supervise the study, said. “The resulting increase in support for the laws happens independently of —even after controlling for — political ideology and negative attitudes about African Americans.” *

You live a pathetic life filled with hatred for your fellow Americans. Scum like you should have their citizenship revoked and be sent to a deserted island where your sick and twisted ideas about how society should operate won’t actually kill people.

[Richard_Parker]

You concede that Holder played an instrumental role in getting the Texas Voter ID program enjoined, but you think there are other individuals out there with more power over fighting voter disenfranchisement. Nay, you not only think there are other individuals with more power, you think Holder “can merely bleat about the issue.”

Just bizarre.

I realize you want to kick up a whole bunch of other debates that you think you might win but which aren’t the points I’m contending, like whether the DOJ will succeed before the Fifth Circuit. But I’m going to go ahead and decline your efforts to shift the goal posts and continue to ridicule you for claiming that the U.S. Attorney General has no power when it comes to fighting voter disenfranchisement.

[Hamlet]

Any belief that I had that Bricker doesn’t just tolerate, but actually craves negative attention and flinging crap back and forth is gone after reading this thread.

[Bricker]

@Hamlet

Any belief that I had that Bricker doesn’t just tolerate, but actually craves negative attention and flinging crap back and forth is gone after reading this thread.

Sure…because I am expected to always be the grown-up and remain polite in the face of a ceaseless barrage of calumny. Right?

[Bricker]

@Richard_Parker

You concede that Holder played an instrumental role in getting the Texas Voter ID program enjoined, but you think there are other individuals out there with more power over fighting voter disenfranchisement. Nay, you not only think there are other individuals with more power, you think Holder “can merely bleat about the issue.”

Is the Texas Voter ID program enjoined?

No.

… and continue to ridicule you for claiming that the U.S. Attorney General has no power when it comes to fighting voter disenfranchisement.

The AG does, as a general rule. Holder’s exercise of the office does not.

[elucidator]

OK, then, what a bracing dose of cynicism! This “loony left” that doesn’t matter, does that include the Americans who elected Obama twice? Have they vanished, disappeared, vaporized by this one electoral victory?

The young are unreliable? They’ll get older. The old are reliable, true, and reliably Republican. They’ll get older too, but not much older.

Ever see any of those pictures of voters standing in line for four, five, six hours or more to vote? They look like Republicans to you? And do they “matter”?

Previously, about half in jest, half in sorrow, I proposed a method by which the voter franchise could be reliably extended to those who “don’t matter”. There are other methods, no doubt, I would support any of them that had the effect of expanding our voting public. Would you support anything like that, do you know of any Republicans who do? I would hope you would be proud of them, proud to point out the many, many Republicans who’s commitment to equality in voting was more important than their partisan preferences.

But I don’t know of any. Surely you must, you could instantly point them out for us. If you have the time, perhaps you will? Are you one of them? Would you support a plan to reach out to the unregistered, provide them with the necessary documentation to soothe your dread fear of radical ACORNistas and activist CASA volunteers? Knowing that the demographics strongly suggest that such a plan would be a huge boon to us “loony leftys”, you would support it anyway because equality before the law matters to you more than partisan advantage?

Sadly, I doubt it. Being something of a pessimist, I love being wrong, but I don’t think so. I think you could cobble together some rationalization, however far-fetched, why the riff-raff who don’t matter should not be encouraged to vote. Even if you were compelled to offer some mathematical fantasy about how in a super-dooper close election, one, five, maybe ten fraudulent votes would wrongly tip the scales.

Wait, no, sorry. I have overstepped, you are an intelligent and honorable man, you would never stoop to such transparent bullshit. My apologies…

[Bricker]

@Shayna

Deeply, deeply deluded. And he likes it that way. He’s a black-hearted, evil prick, just like most of the rest of the fucksticks in his party.

White People Support Voter ID Laws More After Seeing Black People Voting

*“Our findings suggest that public opinion about voter ID laws can be racialized by simply showing images of African American people,” David C. Wilson, who helped supervise the study, said. “The resulting increase in support for the laws happens independently of —even after controlling for — political ideology and negative attitudes about African Americans.” *

You live a pathetic life filled with hatred for your fellow Americans. Scum like you should have their citizenship revoked and be sent to a deserted island where your sick and twisted ideas about how society should operate won’t actually kill people.

Sure, sure. Except that won’t actually happen.

What WILL actually happen is: Voter ID laws.

So one of us lives in a fantasy world, and one of us lives in reality.

Here’s a helpful hint: if the shit you see happening in your world doesn’t actually happen in real life, you’re in a fantasy world. Also known as: being a liberal.

[iiandyiiii]

@Bricker

Sure…because I am expected to always be the grown-up and remain polite in the face of a ceaseless barrage of calumny. Right?

What do you expect when you say things like “Our nation’s AG is well aware that the bulk of such calls are bunk; he finds it politically expedient to join the chorus”? You’re either a mind-reader or you’re making the judgment that anyone who disagrees with you must either be unintelligent or dishonest – that no one can possibly come to a different opinion through reason and rational consideration.

[Bricker]

@elucidator

OK, then, what a bracing dose of cynicism! This “loony left” that doesn’t matter, does that include the Americans who elected Obama twice? Have they vanished, disappeared, vaporized by this one electoral victory?

The young are unreliable? They’ll get older. The old are reliable, true, and reliably Republican. They’ll get older too, but not much older.

Ever see any of those pictures of voters standing in line for four, five, six hours or more to vote? They look like Republicans to you? And do they “matter”?

Previously, about half in jest, half in sorrow, I proposed a method by which the voter franchise could be reliably extended to those who “don’t matter”. There are other methods, no doubt, I would support any of them that had the effect of expanding our voting public. Would you support anything like that, do you know of any Republicans who do? I would hope you would be proud of them, proud to point out the many, many Republicans who’s commitment to equality in voting was more important than their partisan preferences.

But I don’t know of any. Surely you must, you could instantly point them out for us. If you have the time, perhaps you will? Are you one of them? Would you support a plan to reach out to the unregistered, provide them with the necessary documentation to soothe your dread fear of radical ACORNistas and activist CASA volunteers? Knowing that the demographics strongly suggest that such a plan would be a huge boon to us “loony leftys”, you would support it anyway because equality before the law matters to you more than partisan advantage?

Sadly, I doubt it. Being something of a pessimist, I love being wrong, but I don’t think so. I think you could cobble together some rationalization, however far-fetched, why the riff-raff who don’t matter should not be encouraged to vote. Even if you were compelled to offer some mathematical fantasy about how in a super-dooper close election, one, five, maybe ten fraudulent votes would wrongly tip the scales.

Wait, no, sorry. I have overstepped, you are an intelligent and honorable man, you would never stoop to such transparent bullshit. My apologies…

I’m in favor of a fingerprint system, tool.

[Richard_Parker]

@Bricker

Is the Texas Voter ID program enjoined? No.

So because the Fifth Circuit stayed the injunction, it was never enjoined? Or somehow the temporary stay means the AG has no power? This is deep end stuff, Bricker. If your claim was that the AG doesn’t have more power than Justice Scalia when it comes to voter disenfranchisement, I would agree. But c’mon. Claiming he has no power is whack-a-doodle.

So tell me, what individual does have the power here? How about Anthony Kennedy? Or how about Tom Wolf, the new governor of PA who has said, unlike Corbett, that he will not attempt to resurrect PA voter ID after the PA courts killed it. Does he have power?

@Bricker

The AG does, as a general rule. Holder’s exercise of the office does not.

Oh, do tell. gets popcorn

[Hamlet]

@Bricker

Sure…because I am expected to always be the grown-up and remain polite in the face of a ceaseless barrage of calumny. Right?

I don’t expect it from you, no. Having been on the receiving end of one of your tantrums, I quit expecting it awhile ago. Heck, I can stop being polite quite often.

I just never thought you actually craved this kind of attention and de-evolution before. I do now.

[Bricker]

@Richard_Parker

So because the Fifth Circuit stayed the injunction, it was never enjoined? Or somehow the temporary stay means the AG has no power? This is deep end stuff, Bricker. If your claim was that the AG doesn’t have more power than Justice Scalia when it comes to voter disenfranchisement, I would agree. But c’mon. Claiming he has no power is whack-a-doodle.

So tell me, what individual does have the power here? How about Anthony Kennedy? Or how about Tom Wolf, the new governor of PA who has said, unlike Corbett, that he will not attempt to resurrect PA voter ID after the PA courts killed it. Does he have power?

Ok. You got me. “No power,” is hyperbole.

[elucidator]

@Richard_Parker

… fighting voter disenfranchisement…

I’m going to quibble with you a bit, here, friend Parker. Perhaps a relatively minor point, but that’s the trouble with quibbles.

When ALEC first cooked up this dastardly scheme, it wasn’t anything near “disenfranchisement”. Probably, because they figured the wouldn’t get away with it. They seized upon the popularity of voter id to discourage and obstruct, not to block.

The whole point was to discourage just enough of the riff-raff to carry the close elections that were looming. A very smart plan, cynics can be smart too. Alas.

But ALEC was careful to tailor their plan to gain just enough of an advantage to carry the day. Shortsighted, to be sure, despicable, no doubt, but not “disenfranchisement”.

Whenever we use that term, we give aid and comfort to the Forces of Darkness. I would respectfully suggest you avoid it, we need not make shit up, the truth is damning enough.

A minor correction, and I have every confidence it will be taken in the same honest good faith in which it is offered.

[Richard_Parker]

elucidator: Disenfranchisement is the appropriate word in some cases, as for the people who through no fault of their own are unable to obtain a birth certificate in order to get the requisite ID. But you’re right that most of these measures aren’t literally disenfrachisement. Just good old fashioned attempts to dampen turnout amongst the rabble.

Bricker: You didn’t just use hyperbole. Your fundamental point was wrong. It’s just false to say that only powerless far left loons care about this issue. On the contrary, notwithstanding majority support in polling, there are many powerful people and organized constituencies fighting back against not just voter ID but the whole panoply of GOP efforts to keep people from voting–from eliminating same-day registration to eliminating early voting.

Tom Wolf is a good example. He actually ran on the issue, raising it in the gubernatorial debate and hammering Corbett for spending state funds to defend the voter ID law. And he just trounced Corbett even in a Republican wave year, and as a consequence there will be no re-boot of voter ID using a longer timescale to avoid the problems of the last system. Chris Christie must be very disappointed.

Lucky for the people who think more people voting is a bad thing, the GOP victory this week in most states means they can continue their attack on the scourge that is increased voting from poor black people. But there will be limits. I’d say the Texas law has a 50/50 shot in the Supreme Court. Pennsylvania is out for a while. Colorado too and Oregon too.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Bricker

Sure…because I am expected to always be the grown-up and remain polite in the face of a ceaseless barrage of calumny. Right?

I’m not aware that anyone expects that from you.
When you PRETEND that you’re the only grown-up, though, you get justly called on it.

[elucidator]

And this just in, from our good friends at Daily Kos…

Intensive anti-voter-fraud effort finds no instance of actual voter fraud

**
Intensive anti-voter-fraud effort finds no instance of actual voter fraud**

Money quote.

A week before Election Day, the “voter integrity” group True the Vote released a new smart phone app to empower its army of citizen detectives to report suspected incidents of voter fraud and intimidation across the country, in the hopes of creating, as True the Vote’s founder Catherine Engelbrecht put in an interview on Monday, “an archive that will finally pull the curtain back on the myth that there is no voter fraud.”

But it seems that the evidence of massive voter fraud that Engelbrecht hoped to expose failed to materialize. In the week that the app was available, users recorded only 18 incidents of election irregularities, the vast majority of which had nothing to do with True the Vote’s policy priorities.