I pit the statement from the US Embassy in Cairo

[Martin_Hyde]

@Kimstu

Oil is a global market, and oil producers in the West, like oil producers anywhere else, are going to sell their product where they can get the best deal.

The idea that we can somehow achieve “energy independence” with an infrastructure and economy so dependent on a global commodity like oil, just because at present the world happens to be getting more of its oil out of our own back yard, is absurd.

Saying that we don’t need entanglement with Libya or other OPEC countries because we don’t source most of our oil directly from OPEC nowadays is like saying that we don’t need to worry about world grain markets because we can grow enough grain for our own requirements ourselves.

Uh, no. Commodities that are sold in a world market don’t somehow carry a magical guarantee of affordability or “independence” for us just because we’ve extracted them on our own soil.

Every moron, even someone as stupid as you, is aware commodities like oil are fungible. But the West has no compelling interest at this point to trade directly with Muslim countries just because they have oil. Until the latter part of the Cold War there are various basic commodities we didn’t sell or buy from the Soviets precisely because we did not want to deal with them directly. (Eventually we started shipping them grain because their bankrupt system was unable to feed their own people.)

[elucidator]

I see. So, to avoid the moral corruption of buying directly, we will pay a middleman a modest profit so that we can maintain our, ah, integrity.

[gamerunknown]

@Martin Hyde

Islam is our enemy, especially the irrationality that Islam creates.

and for the opposition:

@Treaty of Tripoli

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[elucidator]

That was simply a shrewd political move, as our mouth was writing checks our navy couldn’t cash.

[mlees]

@Kobal2

And copies of the work are regularly vandalized or cause local shit-storms when they feature in new exhibits, in the US and elsewhere in the world. It is also often the target of censorship legal motions. The artist who made this photo has received countless death threats, as well his gvt. art grants have been shut down due to pressure from Christian lobbies.

If you wanted an example of just how much more enlightened and tolerant our religious types are, you couldn’t have picked a *worse *example than Piss Christ.

Who said enlightened? I didn’t.

The quoted man asked “How would they like it if…”.

My answer was intended to be “It’s not ‘IF’. Christianity gets crapped on too. Islam gets no special pass.”

[Kobal2]

@mlees

Who said enlightened? I didn’t.

The quoted man asked “How would they like it if…”.

My answer was intended to be “It’s not ‘IF’. Christianity gets crapped on too. Islam gets no special pass.”

All right, I apologize for the knee jerk - this whole event has made the Islamophobes crawl out of the woodwork all over the web after a long stint of relative quiet, and it gets me on edge.
Still, the point stands: sure, Christianity gets crapped on too. And *they *don’t like it any better.

[elucidator]

Happily, agnostics with vaguely Buddhist inclinations seldom come under attack.

[Terr]

@Kobal2

AStill, the point stands: sure, Christianity gets crapped on too. And *they *don’t like it any better.

Yes, when Christianity gets crapped on, Christians riot in the streets and kill random people.

[VinylTurnip]

@elucidator

I see. So, to avoid the moral corruption of buying directly, we will pay a middleman a modest profit so that we can maintain our, ah, integrity.

<spit-take>

[Ogre]

My
Facebook wall this morning: many, many variations on “Let’s go bomb some shit!”

:rolleyes:

[Terr]

@Ogre

My
Facebook wall this morning: many, many variations on “Let’s go bomb some shit!”

Yep. Go tell those people (like some SDMB’ers are trying to) that Obama’s strongly-worded statements make him “presidential and statesmanlike”.

[YogSothoth]

I don’t have a problem with the US Embassy’s statement. Poking a sleeping bear or kicking a hornet’s nest is never a good idea. If some platitudes can calm some people down, then give them. Only idiots think that is capitulation or appeasement.

@Spavined_Gelding

I am having a bit of trouble comprehending the level of vitriol and hatred displayed by some posting here. The only explanation I can come up with is to ascribe it to either trolling or simple pig ignorance and refusal to examine reality. At least one of our friends seems to think that the appropriate response to mob violence in Egypt and Libya (and apparently anyone else who deviates from some hypothetical model of a US subservient secular society) is to bomb any offending population into the Stone Age. That hardly seems rational.

Because rational displays of appropriately proportional responses are hard when you’re all fired up to toss missiles at someone. I think someone needs to force secularism on Martin Hyde for all of his anti-Islam nonsense.

@Terr

Yes, when Christianity gets crapped on, Christians riot in the streets and kill random people.

That would be too crude. Christians simply bomb the country, kill random people, and oust your popularly elected leaders. No need to get the hands dirty with street attacks

[VinylTurnip]

@Terr

Yep. Go tell those people (like some SDMB’ers are trying to) that Obama’s strongly-worded statements make him “presidential and statesmanlike”.

Fuck do you care? When Obama wins a second term you’re gonna fly to Auckland in your Freedom Blimp.

[Typo_Negative]

@Kobal2

And copies of the work are regularly vandalized or cause local shit-storms when they feature in new exhibits, in the US and elsewhere in the world. It is also often the target of censorship legal motions. The artist who made this photo has received countless death threats, as well his gvt. art grants have been shut down due to pressure from Christian lobbies.

If you wanted an example of just how much more enlightened and tolerant our religious types are, you couldn’t have picked a *worse *example than Piss Christ.

It is striking photo, you have to admit.

piss christ - Google Search

[elucidator]

@YogSosoth

…That would be too crude. Christians simply bomb the country, kill random people, and oust your popularly elected leaders. No need to get the hands dirty with street attacks

Anne Coulter (Anne of Green Goebbels) famously remarked that we should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. Overlooking the absurdity of converting the religious inclination of a corpse…

Wait a second! Mormons baptize people posthumously! It’s all coming into focus!..

Oh, wait. No, it isn’t. Never mind…

[Kimstu]

@Martin_Hyde

But the West has no compelling interest at this point to trade directly with Muslim countries just because they have oil.

You missed the point. The issue isn’t whether the US or the West has a compelling interest to trade directly with Muslim oil-producing countries just because they have oil: that’s not much more significant than which gas station you choose to shop at.

The issue is whether the US has a compelling interest to remain politically engaged with such countries (e.g., maintaining diplomatic relations with them, and consequently embassies in their countries) just because they have oil.

And the answer, like it or not, is still “hell yes”.

If for some reason Libya’s oil production tottered or crashed, the US and US consumers would be strongly affected even if we didn’t trade directly with Libya in any way. Hell, have you forgotten how jittery western markets got last year at the mere threat of the loss of Libyan production?

I repeat: while oppressive Islamist societies continue to be significant oil producers in the world market, and while US economy and infrastructure continues to be so dependent on petroleum, the US cannot afford and will never attempt to follow your prescribed strategy of political disengagement from such societies.

Attainment of some mythical “energy independence” status, based on the economically pointless fact that our national territory temporarily produces a larger amount of fossil fuels than its residents consume, will do absolutely nothing to change that fact.

[Martin_Hyde]

@gamerunknown

and for the opposition:

1. That was signed by that old slaver and monster, Thomas Jefferson, advocate of periodic violent revolution, nullification, and secession.

2. It’s spot on about Christianity, in the time that was written Christianity was still almost as much a scourge on humanity as Islam, and America’s government is not based on Christianity nor should religious differences cause wars with Muslim countries.

3. None of it applies to the modern age, in which Christianity is cowed and weak and Muslims wages war against the west because we say things that offend Muslims and don’t beat our women or rape children enough. (Something Muhammad did regularly, as he married and raped a six year old child.)

[Inigo_Montoya]

@Typo_Negative

It is striking photo, you have to admit.

piss christ - Google Search

Or in that case involving the hammer, “striking a photo”

[Martin_Hyde]

My bad, was actually signed by Adams, so strike point one as Adams was none of those terrible things.

[elucidator]

@Martin_Hyde

…3. None of it applies to the modern age, in which Christianity is cowed and weak and Muslims wages war against the west because we say things that offend Muslims and don’t beat our women or rape children enough. (Something Muhammad did regularly, as he married and raped a six year old child.)

So much stupid in so few words, its like a haiku of ignorance and hate.