I don’t believe for a second that Bush and his government take any pleasure from the disaster. I expect that they are deeply concerned and are trying to do everything they can to remedy the situation.
The problem is that they are grossly incompetent.
Oh well, now you’ve convinced me. Bush is a racist who wants to kill all the poor people. Your post was very helpful, and grounded in reality, to boot. Thanks!
I don’t think anyone wanted people to die. They just don’t seem to have given a shit.
The System broke down, and the people in charge of it, instead of following their best human instincts (if they even had any left), chose to stick with The System. Probably they’d been trained to believe it, and the authority it handed out, was the only thing standing between society and chaos.
The idea of volunteers with boats as “renegades” is an example of how far afield such thinking can take you.
Not just “used”. . .
Right. Those look pre-positioned to me.
And this crap about no one supposedly being able to predict the destruction of the levees?
I hope every one of these fuckers in charge loses their jobs and is never allowed to work in the public sector again. The Mayor, the Governor, the heads of FEMA & DHS and that fuckstick who’s supposed to be in charge of the country, but would rather be building some foreign nation clear across the goddamn globe. Incompetent jackasses, every one of them.
You’re not answering my question.
So, why do YOU believe they were turned away. Tell me now. Tell me what YOU think happened.
Well, what’s your explanation? You keep claiming I’m deluded or something, without bothering to actually say why.
For that matter, it makes little difference. Whether he meant to or not, he’s pretty much done exactly what an evil man would have done. The dead are still just as dead either way.
Berlin. 1948. One of America’s finest hours, might be the closest. Two Million civilians completely cut off from any ground-based supply lines. Local water, but no coal for heat or electricity and no food in a city that had been bombed/shot to hell and was only just recovering. The planes of the time had much lower cargo capacity and turn around times, they had no ports(and most of the wharfs in New Orleans seem operational according to the port authority) and couldn’t use ANY ground transport. New Orleans still has at least one leg of Interstate Highway 10 open as well as many of their wharfs and several airfields large enough to land troops/supplies. The air national guard has flown over 761 missions in the past few days. They don’t seem to be making them count like they did in Berlin nearly sixty years ago despite having better equipment, training, and technology(GPS, etc.). I don’t understand it. The government/military side of the staging and logistics seem to be making it up as they go along.
The Red Cross and the Southern Baptist Convention are making the Federal efforts look like a kids attempt at mimicing Picasso. I don’t understand it. I don’t know what to do about it, but I sure as hell know that my wife and I donated blood today to the Red Cross and financial contributions are going through those channels as well. At this point I think they’re the best hope for the people of New Orleans and they’re doing more with their few hundred million(302 million in gifts and pledges so far) few thousand volunteers(4200, another 600 on the way), and couple hundred emergency vehicles(249, more on the way)than the Feds are with all their billions and the vast manpower and equipment resources of the national guard. It makes me cry with frustration. This isn’t just a “big government efficiency problem”, the Berlin airlift proved large-scale operations can be done well by the government, or even several governments working together(which is supposed to introduce even more inefficiencies). So what the fuck is happening out there? The only thing I can think of is massive leadership failure. The Red Cross and the SBC have proven that even small numbers(4,200 versus tens of thousands of guard and military) of well supported and co-ordinated people can get a lot done. They served over 300,000 hot meals in the past 24 hours. So what the fuck Feds? What the fuck is happening?
I need to stop now. I’ve revised and expanded this post several times via previews and it’s just making me sick to read it and the data in the links. I’ll post it now with one last note.
Anybody in Dallas/Ft. Worth. Head over to Texas Land & Cattle or the Del Frisco Double Eagle Steakhouses on Labor day. They’re donating 100% of their receipts for the day to relief efforts. Other resturants in the area are doing similar things although those steakhouses are pretty much the only ones doing 100%.
Thanks,
Steven
You’d think I could use the correct word once in awhile. :smack:
I’m not monstro or updike but I’d guess local people, faced with horrifying devastation, fell back on mistaken trust. They were front-line responsible for handling chaos. They responded to sweep the decks of well-meaning but muddled volunteers so the real organized rescue forces wouldn’t be impeded.
while a good example, it should be noted that the blockade of all ground routes was anticipated, airplanes did not start to arrive for two days, and the operation was plagued with early logistical errors (all taken from your web link)
That’s what I think happened–the local authorities were completely overwhelmed. Remember, on Monday we all thought NOLA dodged a bullet when Katrina weakened a bit and veered eastward. It wasn’t until Tuesday when the levees were breeched that all hell broke loose.
The failures at the local level are spectacular, yet I don’t see much, if any, criticism of Mayor Nagin or Governor Blanco. Instead, we have BUSH IS TEH EVIL!!! in 8.2 million threads.
Hey, if that’s what it takes for some people to get through the day, have at it, I guess. But realize that it’s already been done, to the nth degree, and adds nothing to this or any other discussion.
I’m going on holiday shortly and won’t be able to participate in this thread further.
Happy Labor Day to all.
Peace, out.
This would include The Red Cross? Let’s not forget the fact that there were NO organized rescue forces. None. Not until shit was already very, very bad indeed.
I don’t think the president wanted people to die either. I think he just didn’t give a fuck about those people. He issued an order to evacuate and if you didn’t get out, then tough tittie. The all the important people got out. Let’s look at the reason why the Red Cross was kept out once again:
The let no one in the city, they did not send troops, they turned away those who came to help. What the fuck are we supposed to think?
Smart of you to leave since your post contains an inherent flaw that completely invalidates its point and would be very hard to defend. Here’s the flaw: regardless of the performance of local governments, FEMA was formed because it was RECOGNIZED that there were some disasters that were way beyond the ability of local governments to respond to. Even if the city, county and state government had responded in an absolutely topnotch manner (there is little doubt that they failed their people, too, to various degree.) they wouldn’t have been able to handle a disaster on the scale that Katrina provided.
Katrina is FEMA’s baby, because events like Katrina are EXACTLY what FEMA was designed to handle. And they failed, miserably. And Bush failed, miserably, when he appointed a crony with no experience whatsoever in disaster management to head FEMA. And when he cut funding for shoring up the very levee that failed.
The governor and mayor will definitely be in for some heavy criticism as soon as Louisiana media get their act together.
You do realize that was the Louisana state Homeland Security folks, NOT the federal version?
This is, in fact, the closest effort I could think of in history. The scope of the effort needed was very similar.
Now… how long between the time the blockade started and the time the planes started landing in force?
Assuming whoever wrote this wikipedia article has their facts straight, the first plane landed two days later. I can’t find anything that specifically answers your “in force” question.
There was a glancing comment in The Denver Post this morning that praise/criticism of the federal government’s response to this disaster is divided sharply along party lines. I found that hard to believe, but I guess it must be so.
Just how incompetent is the management at Homseland Security? How about fucking oblivious?
How the hell can he say something like that? Does he honestly believe no one saw this coming? And if he does, what the hell is he doing running the agency that’s supposed to plan for this shit?
As it has been stated, the first aircraft began to land two days after the blockade was initiated. It should be noted that the allies were a little wise to the chance the USSR might perform such an act and was planning for it. Even with this per the first weblink there was issues with logistics and such.
The primary aircraft used were the C-47 and C-54. The C-47 could carry 6000lbs of cargo, the C-54 could carry 28,000.
some quick facts:
http://www.usafe.af.mil/berlin/quickfax.htm
U.S. airlift reached peak strength of 225 C-54s on Jan 10th 1949 (7 months in)
CALTF mounts a maximum effort known as the “Easter Parade”: 1,398 sorties (one landing in Berlin every minute), 12,940 short tons. on Apr 16th 1949 (10 months in)
also, this operation did not need to perform any search and rescue. Minimal civil unrest was present in Berlin at the time. There also was minimal issues in distribution of supplies on both sides of the aircraft chain.
Its a good comparison, but not a direct one.
I saw on NBC this morning a report that a huge convoy of school buses was held up outside the city for two days TWO DAYS because officials wanted an ARMED GUARD on every single bus, and there weren’t enough armed guards available.
Those officials are so afraid of angry blacks, they won’t go in without firepower. It may not be an official racially discriminatory policy, but it’s a paranoia rooted in racism.
Of course, by the time the busses did arrive, people who were already ill were near death (or dead).
Oddly enough, I was in a city once with armed guards on public busses. That’s one of the details I remember from my visit to East Berlin in 1985.