you mentioned Bush’s call for evacuation as something positive. I’m saying some one in power calling for an evacuation when there is no practical plan in place to accomplish it(as in how do we move people who cannot move themselves) evokes Marie Antoinette’s “let them eat cake” and as such is an example of the depth of the lack of planning which was the fucking problem. so, no, I would not praise Bush for calling for an evacuation w/o also calling for an immediate call for the resources to accomplish it.
There’s ENOUGH blame to go around. I repeat: ENOUGH BLAME.
The Mayor is at fault.
The head of FEMA is at fault.
The President is at fault.
Shiiiit! It’s like people are either blaming the prez or they blaming the mayor…like there’s no such thing as multiple culprits or levels of accountibility. Like we have to take sides with SOMEONE to the villification the OTHER.
The GOVERNMENT fucked up. At all levels and divisions. Can we at least come to an agreement over this?
yeah, monstro.
Back to my OP:
Funny, that some people assume that I have pardoned the mayor and governor from culpability… Nope.
How many times have I got to tell you this? I have been through something similar to this. Ah, fuck it, I’ve said it so often once more won’t get it through your head. You go ahead and think I and Bricker are cheering the death of poor blacks. There’s no changing your mind.
As far as supplies being sent the next day to the Tsunami victims, that’s true. Supplies were sent the next day, but not received. It took more than a day before that stuff actually got to people.
Whoa, what’s that all about? That’s what you get when you try to post while your husband is yelling at you to hurry up.
The government response to Katrina was terrible, incompetent and lethal. This admininstration had time to plot and plan. Instead they instructed the Red Cross not to go in because they didn’t want people feeling too comfortable in there. And anyone-- this includes the very Righteous Scylla-- who feels this is defensible is willfully being a moron. I hope I am clear as to what I mean.
You know, if you agree that it was all either Clinton or Kerry’s fault the little retard will just fuck off and go jerk off in a corner, right?
Just thought I’d help. Don’t feed him. It’s not like any nuggets will get through that concrete-stuff cranium.
-Joe
Who asked for federal attention and assistance all the way back on August Fucking Twenty Eight.
I know we all love anecdotal evidence, but the ANG stationed in Meridian, MS usually has 6-8 Chinooks parked on their pads. I see them almost every time I drive along I-20 into Meridian.
For those not paying attention, Meridian is also in Mississippi. Wild guess I’d say…250 miles to N.O.
-Joe
You’re the one that said
Your sentiments disgust me. You think humanity should not need police, or doors, or locks, or water or a place to sleep. You think people should be able to cope with a complete breakdown of the social order and that the criminals you lock your doors against should take a day off in that case. You think if you were at the superdome you’d be organizing a recycling campaign or something. You think you are above victims who have been through hell and finally found a place to go, only to find it’s a dead end? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m sure you’d be really useful and productive.
You think if, during 9/11 all the cops houses had been destroyed and they were outnumbered and the TVs were showing Tommy Lee Goes to College instead of wall-to-wall coverage, there wouldn’t have been more crime and more “help me help me?”
What a fat lot of nerve you have to say who should be mad at what. You have no perspective. You live in a dream world.
I absolutely goddamn cannot fucking believe anyone is making an even tepid defense of the Bush administration here. If he has any decency at all, he’ll resign when the crisis ends. There’s no ideological conflict here – this is strictly about governmental competence in executing one its basic functions.
And I say this as a solid conservative. My credentials in this regard are, I believe, well-established on these boards. I am ashamed (but not entirely surprised) that some of my ideological brethren find it possible post-Katrina to continue supporting this White House.
wow.
I’ll make a tepid defense of the Bush Administration. I think that state and local governments in this case have fucked up even worse than the federal government. That tepid enough for you?
It really looks like completely inadequate contingency planning. If, as seems to be the case, the possiblity of this worst-case scenario was well known, the New Orleans and Louisiana government should have had detailed plans for how to maintain order, evacuate survivors, and deliver emergency water, foodstuffs, and medicines. Those plans should have been put into execution the moment it became apparent a Cat 5 storm was bearing down on the Gulf coast. There should have been a couple thousand of National Guardsmen ready to roll the moment the storm passed and movement became possible with thousands more on alert for immediate call-up, and the logistical underpinnings of the evacuation/aid delivery should have been in place (i.e., required trucks and buses commandeered, inland supply depots being stocked, etc). Still would have been a monumental disaster, but the lack of coordination and above all the failure to maintain order is simply unforgiveable. But it lies most heavily on the heads of local officials.
What the…? This is unworthy of you, Bricker. Asserting catastrophe response has never been done any better is hardly an answer. Bush’s administration expended tremendous political and actual capital, promising to do exactly that.
Remember the hoopla and fund diversion for Homeland Security? You know, that new department of the Federal government created by Bush? It’s the one charged with analzying risks to country, then preparing defensive strategies and responses in cases of catastrophic events. Gee, so we have a significant city–oil, shipping, business, large population base–sited below sea level, smack dab on a river delta. It’s just kinda, I dunno, common sense, that all those factors should have been considered in formation of any disaster plan, no matter the cause of the catastrophe. Gosh, severe flooding just might happen if the city’s levy system was broken somehow! Might be a good idea to figure out what to do in advance if most of the roads are under water.
Bush’s highly touted promise of national prepardedness failed, spectacularly. This isn’t about politics. It’s about a specific expensive, much-ballyhooed governmental commitment that failed. Bush-the-politician isn’t the point. He’s just another in a long line. The point is that a major city was largely wiped out but, contrary to repeated assurances, few effective systems were in place to handle it.
If Bush were to resign, we’d have President Cheney. Be careful what you wish for.
Kudos to you, Dewey. I know we’ve had our spats in the past, so it is very refreshing to see us on the same page this time.
And not to mention, it’s a lie (oops, I mean an error).
South Florida was demolished after Hurricane Andrew in '92, and there was a delay in getting aid down here because people had assumed things weren’t so bad. But once the cameras showed the devastation on national TV, aid rushed in.
America had four days worth of news coverage on this before, it seems, FEMA started responding. The Gulf Coast might have well been on the freakin’ moon. You could blame the relative geographic isolation of south Florida (being on the end of a long peninsula) for the '92 gaff. But the Gulf Coast isn’t isolated from anyone. We all saw the devastation from the get-go. We knew it was coming, dammit.
It’s really unexcusable.
Well, I don’t really consider that a defense, so I’m OK with it.
But this whole thing makes one wonder why the fuck our tax dollars have been funding FEMA all these years if such an immensely destructive disaster is considered principally a state and local matter.
Furthermore, I don’t hold the administration responsible for much of anything in the immediate aftermath of the storm. It’s the enormous fuckups in the last five days that engender my wrath.
My plan for restoring power to New Orleans: we hook up generators to Teddy Roosevelt’s grave, and harness the tremendous spinning therein. Teddy didn’t fuck around during the 1904 San Fransico earthquake, and neither should Bush today. Every goddamn bus in a ten-state area should have been commandeered on Tuesday and taken to New Orleans, damn the legalities, and let anyone who’s upset by that bring a lawsuit. Ditto for every site in a ten-state area, large or small, capable of handling refugees. There are church camps all over east Texas – why aren’t they being used?
I say this with absolute seriousness: I disagree with John Kerry on just about everything, but if Katrina had hit last year, I would have voted for him. Incompetence of this magnitude just cannot be rewarded.
monstro- that quote was Veb , not me. (clarification only)
:smack:
They should both resign, along with every cabinet secretary whose job has anything to do with disaster response. A Denny Hastert presidency would not be terrible.
There was a time when an enormous demonstration of incompetence (rather than Nixon-like corruption) would yield resignations at the top of an administration. I’m curious: has this happened in modern times, or am I just wishing for the dignity of a bygone age?