"I shot expert in basic training."

Factual Questions
1

I like to shoot guns, and over the years hundreds of friends and acquaintances have stopped by my place to shoot. Many are military veterans. Each and every former service member told me they shot “expert” while in basic training. Just this evening, I and a student of mine were talking about guns, and she casually mentioned she was in the Air Force ten years ago and shot “expert” in Basic.

Just what are the requirements for shooting “expert” in basic training? I mean no disrespect by this, but quite a few of the former service members who have shot at my place were mediocre shots at best. Perhaps they were once “expert” shots, and just got rusty? I don’t know.

2

It’s not particularly meaningful, in the Army and Marines to complete initial training you have to earn a Marksmanship Badge. The badge has three ranks, Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman. Marksman is the lowest, Expert is the highest. It’s based on hitting a certain % of targets, I believe Expert requires you to hit 36 out of 40 targets at something like 50-300 yard range.

These badges actually exist for a variety of weapons, including mortar, flamethrower, et cetera, and the requirements are probably different for different ones.

Almost everyone in the Army or Marines gets their Marksman rank badge pretty easily (and since it is required, that isn’t surprising.) Expert is harder and requires a bit more effort, but it’s not rare by any means. It doesn’t mean the person was a trained sniper or anything of the sort.

If they say they graduated from sniper school that would carry more meaning than an Expert Marksmanship Badge, but mind even sniper school is only like five weeks and there’s a massive difference between someone who graduates that program and never does anything with it and someone who spends lots of time in the field as an actual sniper, and/or who maintains that level of proficiency through training.

There’s also the President’s Hundred Tab which is given to the top 100 shooters at the NRA sponsored President’s Rifle Matches. That Tab will generally indicate someone who is legit with marksmanship and would probably be capable of impressing serious competition shooters.

Real combat prowess isn’t necessarily strongly related to any of the aforementioned qualifications and abilities.

3

IIRC back in the 80s the USAF had small arms qualifications with either the .30 Spl S&W revolver or the M-16A1.

Shooting “expert” wasn’t all that hard.

Somebody who couldn’t control a massive flinch or wouldn’t follow range safety procedures wouldn’t even qualify. Everybody else would qualify. Of those qualifying in one or the other weapon, probably 1/3rd made the “expert” cutoff.

The standards were based on hitting a man-sized silhouette target at various ranges & from various static stances. A hit was a hit; a miss was a miss. There was no concept of a bullseye or differing points for better or lesser hits. So in theory somebody could make expert having never hit a silhouette anywhere but along the edges of the shoulders.

The .38 course was shot with plain lead ball ammo, and the M-16 course was shot with a .22LR sub-caliber adaptor against sub-scale silhouettes at closer ranges (50%?). Some genuine .223 ammo was used in part of the training, but not when shooting for quals.
I can easily imagine somebody who’s pretty useless by civilian target range standards who actually did qualify as “expert” in the USAF last week, much less 15 years ago.

4

Expert can be easier or harder depending on the weapon and range. 9mm? Easy to qualify expert. M16 - medium difficulty on paper targets, pretty hard on popups, though not super rare. I generally qualified Sharpshooter on the M16 (with the occasional Expert) and Expert on the 9mm.

5

WTF? Flamethrower??? How do I get in on one of these tests??!?!?

6

You’re also looking at selection and confirmation biases. The people who shot expert were probably already shooting when they joined, so they came in with a certain amount of expertise and skill that most recruits wouldn’t have.

7

When I was in the Marine Corps I shot Sharpshooter, the middle category. It was a fairly average score.

The Marines at the time shot from the 200 to 500 yard line, in what was known as the KD range. The targets’ range was known, and they weren’t moving. The course is really designed to focus on the fundamentals of shooting.

At the 200 yard line you would shoot 5 rounds standing, 5 round kneeling, and 5 rounds standing. For this course of fire you would shoot a round, and they would pull and mark it after each shot.

Then there was a 10 round rapid fire at the 200 yard line. You would fire 2 five round magazines in rapid succession designed to test target retention. You’d do the first 5 standing and the second 5 kneeling. The targets at the 200 yard line were a 12 inch black disc iirc.

Then you moved to the 300 yard line where you would do 5 rounds kneeling slow fire (shoot, mark target, repeat). Followed up with a 10 round prone rapid fire. The 300 yard line is shot at what was called a B-mod target. I don’t remember what the dimensions were, but it represented a man in prone.

Then you’d do 10 rounds at the 500 yard line. This was done in the prone position, slow fire. Target was a Dog target, which represented a man standing in the open.

… I wrote a bit about the scoring system, but to be honest I don’t remember it any more. Half way through my enlistment they changed the system which only helps blur it in my memory.

All firing, at least at that time, was done with a sling but with iron sights. No ACOG or CCO.

The was also a course of fire that was more combat oriented. It was a mere no or no go sort of thing though.

I’m now in the Army and they have a pop target course with targets ranging from 50 yards to 300 yards. There are 40 targets, with 20 from the prone and 20 from the kneeling. I was allowed to use my CCO. After not picking up a rifle for 4 years I shot a 36. Easy as hell with the optics.

8

Marines, 1969…200, 300 & 500.

9

I’m a former Navy officer, and was required to qualify on a .45 caliber pistol. On my first attempt on the qualification course, I shot well enough to get the “Expert” rating. Unlike many (most?) Navy officers going through a similar qualification course, I’d done a bit of target shooting previously, and actually owned a pistol of my own. However, I certainly wouldn’t consider myself a true expert marksman–I’m really just an average shot.

The Navy course was much more focused on real-world application (as the Navy saw it). Any hit on the target counted as a hit; you had to fire rapidly, with little time taken to aim each shot; and a portion of the course was completed with the pistol being held in the “non-dominant hand” (to simulate an injury to the dominant hand). You also shot from a variety of shooting positions, at varying ranges. The closest ranges were ridiculously close (3 yards). The farthest was either 15 or 25 yards.

10

The title sounded like a description of a training mishap by a non-native English speaker.

11

“I shot expert in basic training, just to watch him die”.

12

So could draftees get out of the military (or at least out of a combat assignment) by purposely failing marksmanship training?

13

No, but they might be given a non-optional opportunity to try again.

I don’t remember what I shot in basic. What I do remember is that after a week on the ranges I was black and blue from my neck down to my elbow. That was with the M-14 which did have a hell of a recoil.

The pistol course was 24 rounds with the old .45 at torso sizes silhouette targets at 10 or 20 yards. Not a tough test unless you were afraid of the weapon. Unlike the rifle course, myopia was no impediment in the pistol course. I could not even see the 600 yard target on the rifle range.

The course that was the most fun was with the M-60 machine gun.

14

Air Force here – I did not shoot expert. We actually have a ribbon for it. Because we don’t get enough worthless ribbons.

There was “passing”, which was something like 30/40 in the targets. The target was actually 25 yards away, but had a bunch of those little human shaped blobs that simulated distances up to, I think, 200 yards. Simulated distance though.

In any case, I think expert was getting 37/40 in the blobs. There were 19 year old girls who had never fired an air pistol in their lives who managed to get expert, and there were experience hunters who were handed crappy weapons and missed it. FWIW, you fire a whopping 80 rounds in basic training. 40 for practice, then 40 to qualify.

Long story short, shooting expert in the Air Force doesn’t amount to much. I almost got it on the M9 and I’m about the last person on earth you want holding a gun.

15

Every USAF officer I’ve talked with about their “fruit salad” has said that all the ribbons other than the first row or two are for just showing up. Which is why I only ask about the first row.

16

Navy Seabee here. We shot a 200 yard/200 point course in prone, sitting and offhand, at bullseye targets. There were three levels of accomplishment: marksman, sharpshooter, expert. I don’t remember the cutoff scores for each. And yes, I never qualified less than expert with a rifle or pistol in 23 years, but then I grew up with guns. One year I even set the range record with 198/200 points. I was also on a rifle competition team at one point, where we fired on 200-300-500 yd ranges.

17

JerseyMarine2092 got it right. I was a range coach (and pistol expert, and 3-award rifle expert) in the Marine Corps around the same time. The scoring and targets changed a bit, but the course of fire was roughly the same.

The biggest difference between the Marine Corps qualification and that of the other branches is the yardage; as far as I know, everyone else stops at 300 yards, while the M.C. goes out to 5 (and let me tell you, it is FUN to ding a target with iron sights from 500 yards).

Having coached dozens of shooters, and having missed expert before, myself, I can attest that ‘shooting expert’, in the Marine Corps anyway, is a difficult task.

18

Thank you, Sergeant Cash.

19

They are held in San Francisco.

20

Not in Basic, but I too shot expert on the M4 while in the Air Force. As others have said, it really isn’t that big of a deal. Like, at all. It isn’t worth the pain of having to get a whole new ribbon set and everything.

Every time I’ve shot the pistol though I score a 36. Every. Time. At least I’m consistent.