If someone tells me “I shot expert at Basic training” I assume they never fired it since.
Not necessarily. Army 1966, Fort Gordon, Georgia.
If they announced their intention to fail or if their intent was obvious, on the day of the re-test they would be assigned to KP duty and a sergeant would take their dog tags and one of their shirts with a name tag on it. When their stuff got returned, they were told that they had qualified.
That’s a good way to think about it…
Yeah, 500 yards is a bitch, even in prone with no wind. Add a little breeze to the mix and a .223 round does a fancy dance going downrange.
When I joined the Canadian Forces I was scoring at the highest levels right off the bat, and I’d never touched a firearm before. The only time I’ve ever fired live ammo was on our range days and other times we had a chance to blow off some ammo. Maybe 20 in all, tops.
I think a lot of its has to do with your heart rate or your central nervous system, as my father was also an excellent shot.
But that said, almost anyone with some practice could get at least a very good score on standard range distances of 100 to 200 metres. Military rifles are accurate and easy to use, so in perfect conditions at ranges where wind doesn’t have much impact, it’s really not very difficult.
“The biggest difference between the Marine Corps qualification and that of the other branches is the yardage; as far as I know, everyone else stops at 300 yards, while the M.C. goes out to 5 (and let me tell you, it is FUN to ding a target with iron sights from 500 yards).”
Echoing these comments, and never having fired a gun or rifle before boot camp, it really is a tribute to MC marksmanship training to place several rounds on target at 500 yds, especially with iron sights on an M-14.
In my Army basic training (1989) I only ever qualified as marksman, and I think I only ever got sharpshooter a couple of times during yearly requalification. That was with the M16. I did qualify expert, though, on the M203 grenade launcher in Germany the only time I ever used it. I don’t think I got to wear that one on my uniform, though. They were just paint grenades, too.
It is my recollection that when I fired for rifle qualification in 1965 at Fort Riley it was with the M-14 on a “Trainfire Range” with pop-up silhouette targets at ranges from 25 yards (or meters, not sure which) out to 600 yards. The 600 yard target was a mere nick on the horizon but some guys were routinely knocking it down shooting off-hand. The rifles were zeroed at 250 yards (that took a day on the 1000 inch range to get the whole company zeroed) and every thing else was simply shot by Kentucky Windage. The close targets took a little getting use to since a dead on center of target aim meant the bullet was passing over the target altogether.
Generally the shooting was fun, it was cleaning the weapon every night that was a pain, especially dipping the parts in boiling water in a garbage can out in the company street.
After that first qualification all of my range work with the rifle was for familiarization, not for record. The M-14, the .45 cal pistol and the M-60 MG are all I ever formally qualified on. As far as I know all of those weapons are out of the active arm’s inventory.
At Fort Leonard Wood in 1967-69, if a kid didn’t honestly qualify as something he was recycled and did it again until he at least shot marksman. It may well be that some draftees spent their whole two year tour endlessly shooting for qualification. I doubt that because even a blind man with the shakes (such as myself) could qualify once he gave it an honest effort.
Highly skeptical of this?
You’re telling me that someone with a rifled zeroed at 250 yds, using no sight adjustments to windage or elevation (only shifting point-of-aim), and standing up, can regularly hit a rifle target at 600 yards using iron sigts?
Also, with a BZO (battle-sight zero) of 250 yards, aiming dead center of a target from from 0 - 250 yards should strike within about +/- 6 vertical inches of the point-of-aim. I am familiar with a 5.56/.223 round, mind you, I would imagine the the .308/7.62 round the M14 fired would behave similarly.
Maybe I am mis-remembering what I learned, but it seems like a stretch.
The Army still routinely uses the M14, though you may not recognize it.
As I recall, 4 of those pop ups were at 300 yards.
The strategy to getting expert was: “DON’T PULL THE TRIGGER ON THE 300 YARD TARGET OR I WILL PT YOUR ASS UNTIL YOU FUCKING DIE!” or something like that. You save those 4 shots so you have an extra try or two in case you miss one of the closer targets. That way, you have a much better chance of getting 36/40.
I shot 40/40 on qualification day–despite hearing my drill sergent bellowing obscenities at me whenever I popped the 300. He did not PT me, however. He had me coach a couple other guys. I told them to NEVER shoot at the 300 target. 
Was it also disctracting having to mutter under your breath, before each shot, ‘you killed my father, prepare to die’?
“You’re using Mussolini’s defense against me, eh?”
“I though it fitting, given the extended trenchwork.”
“Naturally you must suspect me to attack with Napoleon?”
“Naturaly, but I find von Stuben cancels out Napoleon. Don’t you?”
“Unless the enemy has studied his Patton … which I have!”
I watched it. I said it. I meant it. I can remember a few names if you want them.
Navy boot camp fam firing was a hoot. Having grown up with guns, I had no problems, but I kept hearing the rangemaster on the loudspeaker saying things like: “Number 23, you’re firing on number 30’s target.” “Number 31, please open your eyes and keep that weapon pointed downrange.” “Range coach: pull number 12 offline IMMEDIATELY!” “Number 23, you’re STILL shooting at number 30’s target.” “Range coach, please inform number 31 that he needs to load the weapon before pulling the trigger.”
I was laughing so hard, I was afraid I’d be pulled offline and made to PT.
ha, the elusive “Flamboyant” Ribbon.
A 250m BZO would have him hitting exactly 4.6cm high at 25m. But give him a break, it almost 50 years ago!!!
Shooting past 300m should have been done on the bipod out to 700m. The rear sight did allow for elevation adjustments, which is likely what the other people actually hitting the targets consistantly were using.
But like I said, I wouldn’t hold it against someone for misremembering (or possibly remembering poor instruction) something from 50 years ago.
To be really specific, a 7.62 round would strike 4.6 cm high. A .308 round would strike 1-4/5" high 
600m offhanded shooting with iron sights is a helluva feat of marksmanship. I read that as they were shooting with their non-dominant hand from the standing. Is that correct?
The 500 yard line was called out money maker in the Marine Corps. Despite the distance, you had the most stable firing position. You’d do all your firing from the prone, with the sling wrapped around you bicep for added stability. The M16A2’s rear sight allow for range adjustments. All you had to do was ensure you’d get good sight picture and then don’t farking move. At 500 yards the front sight post was the same width as the dog target. You’d just have to cut it in half with the top part of the post.
Ah ha! I have been challenged on the credibility of my memory. A dispute without any possibility of satisfactory resolution.
In clarification and defense:
The close in targets were head size pop-ups. You knew where they were going to pop-up from the channel dug in the dirt by near misses. You did not know, however, when they were going to pop-up. Sometimes you didn’t even know a target was up at all until someone down the line opened up, then you started looking in earnest. In any event, on the head size target if you aimed dead center on the face or maybe right between where the eyes should have been you were going to miss and you were going to see dirt thrown up behind the target. The true aiming point was the point of where the chin should have been or maybe a bit lower. Sometimes the target was sufficiently behind a bream that all you could see from the prone or foxhole position was a narrow slice of the top of the head.
At 250 yards you should get a clean hit in the center of the target by aiming at the center of the target.
At 600 yards the secret, so the guys who were hitting it said, was to lay the front sight over the target and then lower until you could see just the top of the target’s head poking above the middle of the front sight. I’ll be dammed if I know that was true. I hardly ever saw the 600 yard target and then only in the early morning with the light behind me. I just fired at the horizon and hoped for the best – my not hit ‘em but I might scare ‘em.
By off hand I mean standing position without a support. Technical term - shooting off the hand, not from a bench or a sandbag. The qualification course was shot from four positions, standing (off-hand), kneeling or seated (your choice), prone and out of a sunken culvert with a sandbag. I think we fired eight or maybe ten rounds from each position and 16 or 20 from the culvert/fox hole. At any rate the litany of “with eight rounds ball ammunition lock and load” still resonates.