If they don’t act on their best interest then yes.
Do you think Hamas is acting on their best interest?
Who is going to act in their best interest? What reason is there to believe Israel will act in the best interest of Palestinian babies and children? Their best interest is served by maintaining a cease fire and providing food and medical care. I think the US should be taking the leadership role in getting there. And from there it becomes a tangled web. Hamas was successful in their goal as determined by Iran to break up any cooperation between Arab countries in the region, Israel, and the US. The way to deny them success in the end is getting that cooperation to work. It’s difficult for all the parties because each is saddled with their old internal political dialogues.
I mean, their Arab neighbors not unreasonably viewed Israel’s assertion of territorial sovereignty over what had been Arab lands as an act of aggression.
Yes, of course in hindsight I think it might have been better if the Arab countries had been more willing to concede some of that territorial claim in exchange for immediate establishment of Palestinian statehood (assuming Israel would have been amenable to that, which is a pretty big assumption).
But it’s not reasonable to call the Palestinians or other Arabs “hateful” just because they didn’t want Israel taking over what they had long regarded as their land.
Didn’t we just spend a bunch of posts correcting @Smapti because he said that the Palestinians are “the own people” of the other Arabs? And here you are, doing the same thing.
If the Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc are separate peoples from the Palestinians, then it is in fact unreasonable for them to view Israel as taking their land.
On the other hand, if all Arabs are united somehow, then maybe that perspective makes more sense.
And in fact, the situation is more complicated and murky than either Smapti or those who debated him make it out to be.
Under Ottoman rule, the biggest guiding principal for who is aligned with whom would be based on familial lines, call it clans or tribes or however.
Near the end of Ottoman rule, you get two somewhat conflicting ideas. Nationalism, and Pan Arabism.
Under nationalism, people in each area focus on what makes them different. Often, this has to do with the cultures that were there before Arabization. So the Lebanese fascination with the Phonecians, the Egyptians harkening back to Ancient Egypt, etc.
Under Pan Arabism, many of these subdivisions are deemphasized, and instead shared culture is magnified.
Much of the opposition to Israel among the neighboring Arab states had to do with Pan Arabism. King Abdullah of Jordan wanted to rule a Greater Syria that would include the entire Levant and Trans-Jordan area. Nasser on the other hand was more of a true Pan Arabist and wanted to see a union of Arab states across much of North Africa and the Middle East.
For a number of reasons, Pan Arabism greatly declined after the Six Day War, and Nationalism grew in each Arab state. Including Palestine, where the way they were treated under Egyptian occupation and Jordanian annexation further emphasized a difference instead of a union.
These national identities exist because at some point, people (both inside and outside these groups) decided they existed and started acting accordingly. Which is how every other identity came to be, too.
If history had played out differently - for example, if the Arab League successfully pushed all the Jews into the sea like they wanted to - then we may well not have Israelis or Palestinians today, with the Palestinian identity having been subsumed into a Pan-Arab one that successfully took off after their victory.
Yes, and that is why I support what Biden is doing- signing off on a billion usd in humanitarian aid, building a billion dollar pier so that the aid can get in, putting pressure on the asshole netanyahu, and putting a hold on military aid to Israel,. That cant last for long, mind you- Congress controls the budget, but the President can put a temp hold.
netanyahu is a crook a killer and an asshole.
It is to laugh- Hamas leadership is skimming aid off the top, selling some and using some for themselves. Hamas can keep a hundred or so hostages well fed and healthy. Hamas leadership is eating high off the hog, while their people suffer.
Biden is building a pier that is costing almost a billion USD and has signed off on a billion usd aid package.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/destruction-lawlessness-red-tape-hobble-aid-gazans-go-hungry-2024-03-25/
“There is a sufficient amount of food entering Gaza every day,” said Col. Moshe Tetro, a COGAT official overseeing Gaza.
The new route was initiated “as part of a pilot in order to prevent Hamas from taking over the aid,” COGAT said in a post on social media site X. Freedman, though, said he didn’t have “specific evidence” he could share about Hamas pilfering aid.
Hamas and general corruption is stopping the food from getting to the hungry.
Yes, something should be done by the assholes living in luxury in Dohar, Qatar.
Their lieutenants in Gaza? Not so sure things are going well for them. At first, sure, but as time has gone on? Maybe not so much.
The hostages have been fed and given water - they’ve said as much. That is more than many, many Gazans have been given so sure, Hamas is providing for them to some extent.
At least a few hostages have been killed by Israeli bombs collapsing the structures they’re in. Not sure what you expect Hamas to do about that when there is no safe place in Gaza and the IDF is gunning down aid workers and the occasional trio of hostages that managed to get away from Hamas only to be killed by their own side.
Yes. And Israel’s blockade of Gaza is also stopping food from getting to the hungry even before Hamas has a chance to do that.
I fully support the humanitarian pier to get aid into Gaza, but I also expect both the IDF and Hamas will be taking shots at it soon enough.
Hand them all over to the IDF or even Egypt. Immediately. Kidnappers are evil.
Israel is letting aid in-
The issues are- Israel’s inspections of all aid- reasonable unless taken to far, and Hamas etc stealing the aid before it get to those who need it.
Read my cite from my last post- There is a sufficient amount of food entering Gaza every day,. Its not how much- the issue is who gets it.
NOW aid is getting in - there were some weeks where nothing got in.
The IDF murdered three of their own hostages that were half naked and under a white flag. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
Having them go through Egypt might be a lot safer.
That’s Israel saying enough food is getting in. The US, EU, and UN are all saying there’s NOT enough food getting in. With roughly 20% of the pre-war amount of aid entering Gaza, anyone not mindlessly parroting the Israeli government’s words might notice some dissonance.
You hand over civilians to organizations like the Red Cross, not the military or CIA. If I were a hostage in Gaza, I would especially stay the fuck away from the IDF or any other uniformed groups and refuse to go with them.
That article explains the issues. There is enough aid- it is not getting to the peopel that get it-
Onerous inspections- Israel’s fault. But after that- there are too many problems-
“It’s very hard to reach all people,” said Naser Qadous, who coordinates food assistance in Gaza’s north for Anera, an aid organization. “This is why there are many people that are starving.”
In Rafah, where aid is somewhat more available, UNRWA’s distribution infrastructure is strained as more than half of Gaza’s population has sought shelter there. Some Gazans are even trading or selling their aid, and the prices have become prohibitive for most people, exacerbating the unequal distribution of food supplies.
## Aid convoys are frequently beset by violence
The threats of desperate crowds and Israeli gunfire make the transfer of food to people dangerous.
The absence of security officers has enabled organized criminal gangs to steal aid or attack convoys, U.S. officials and Palestinians in central and northern Gaza have also said.
So, yes- part of it is Israel, but the rest is the fact that Hamas either steals the food, or uses it as a tool, or gangs steal it, etc etc.
This has happened in famine after famine- there is enough food, but the issue is getting that food to those who need it.
Fine by me. But the fact Hamas is keeping them in gaza where is is dangerous- is on them.
This really isn’t a difficult concept to understand. If you had to flee your country, and you had a choice on what country would take you in, where eould you rather resettle - England or Zimbabwe? Australia or Estonia? Canada or Korea? Chances are you’d prefer to be in a place where the people speak your language and you have cultural customs in common with them, right?
You’re moving the goal posts again, this time from “Who should help refugees?” to “Where would you rather go if you were a refugee?” Yeah, I might prefer to go to England, but if England doesn’t want to help, that doesn’t give other countries a free pass not to help, either.
I honestly feel that while Israel has the means to do so, its more beneficial to work towards the goal of removing Gazans slowly rather than nakedly fast.
This war has left Gaza not viable for the support of life. Gazans self deport due to these conditions. The result, less Gazans. Its the same playbook that terrorists use against Israelis.
(Sigh)
Alright. Let me break this down for you as fundamentally as I can.
Homo sapiens are social animals that instinctively form in-groups for their mutual protection and benefit. All humans are part of multiple such in-groups, some of which are dictated by the circumstances of one’s birth and some of which are by choice. These in-groups include family, community, nation, religion, ethnicity, culture, organizations one may be part of, and so forth.
It is a basic rule in almost all human cultures that one has an obligation to help those of their in-group who are in need. This is because the existence of weakness or suffering within the in-group weakens it and it is to the benefit of all when such needs are addressed.
The Palestinian nation is part of an ethocultural group commonly called “Arabs”, a Caucasian people of Semitic descent having its origins in the Arabian Peninsula. Most of the states neighboring the lands in which the Palestinians dwell, including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, are also primarily populated by Arabs. These people share a cultural identify defined by thousands of years of tradition, 1500 years of Islamic philosophy, Ottoman hegemony, and the occupation and partitioning of their lands by the Great Powers in the aftermath of the world wars. They additionally share a common language, a common religion, and common cultural artifacts of Ottoman origin - e.g. the moon-and-star symbol of the Ottoman empire which has been adopted as a pan-Islamic symbol, and foods of Ottoman origin which remain popular throughout the region. Furthermore, prior to 1967 the areas in which the Palestinians dwell were under the military control of Egypt and Jordan.
It is therefore accurate to say that the Arab states share a very strong and indelible cultural connection to the Palestinians, to a similar degree that people of neighboring US states or the constituent countries of the UK share, and as such they have a stronger moral obligation than most others to aid the Palestinian people, in accordance with the Koranic instruction to "do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess.” (al-Nisaa 4:36)
Do you understand?
That’s a lot of words to say “People should stick to their own kind.”
100-150 trucks a day is not 500-600. There is not enough aid, no matter what Israeli military spokesmen say.
I don’t recall saying anything about “sticking to your own kind”, but if you want to believe that “love thy neighbor” and “think globally, act locally” is racist then I don’t know how to convince you otherwise.
I guess I would lean towards helping those most in need without them having to pass some paper bag or language test first. But then again maybe I’m betraying “my kind” by doing so?
Allow me to refresh your memory, then:
Personally, I have nothing against “think globally, act locally,” or “love your neighbor,” but those are two things you’re specifically saying Israel doesn’t have to do, because the Palestinians aren’t “their people.”