I think I've been brain-washed. help!

Factual Questions
21

For anyone unfamiliar with, but curious about the Glory Barners:

Here a link to a new article that will give you the flavor of them.

And I have two personal accounts from childhood. I actually have many, many more, but this should give you an idea of how creepy this group is.

First Story:
I am visiting my grandfather, (who at the time was not involved in this) when my grandmother (she was way into this at the time) comes home. She is wailing about the news.

Here is the news she was wailing about as reported by the news. A couple in her church had been arrested. I forget the exact “charges”, but the narrative is pretty grisly. The couple had several children. One of them had died of some easily treatable infection. The child was not treated due to their belief in faith healing. The story gets stranger. They continued to believe their child would be healed soon (which now required resurrection). They included their dead child in all family activities, awaiting its return to the living. They were caught by police after being stopped for some traffic violation. The cop looks in the back seat and sees an obviously very dead child sitting beside the other children.

Same news reported by my grandmother. The police are killing/have killed a child in my congregation. They have taken the child away for its parents so they can’t heal the child. Those evil men are going to burn… blah blah blah.

Second story:
Same grandparents, same set up. Grandmother comes home from church. She is not wearing her glasses. She is extremely near sighted. If you have ever seen a near sighted person without their glasses, you know it is very easy to tell just by looking at them, that they are having a hard time seeing. Grandfather asks where her glasses are? She says that she was healed at church today and doesn’t need them anymore.

Let’s examine that for a second. I could tell she couldn’t see just looking at her. How whacked out do you have to be to believe you are healed when you plainly can’t see?

Back to the story… Grandfather points out that according to her driver’s license, she can’t legal drive without them. Doing so would invalidate their insurance, and he won’t let her drive without them. If she doesn’t drive, she doesn’t get to go to church.

Fast forward to the next day. She puts her glasses on so grandfather will let her drive to church. She gets back from church that afternoon and proclaims that they have “unhealed” her so that she would be able to wear her glasses and attend church, thus resolving the problem.

I hope I don’t need to comment on this, but… Obviously, if she was really healed, all that she has to do is go to the DMV and get her eyes checked without glasses. If she passes, the driving restriction would be removed immediately.

Bhb, I hope you sister has not started down a path anything like this one.

22

I can sympathize, bhb. I went through a similar experience in college (what can I say, I’m slow :wink: ). For years I said nothing to my parents, mostly avoiding the topic and going to church as requested. I made up my mind not to lie to them, though, so it eventually came out. My mom was disappointed, but accepting. My dad turned out to have had similar thoughts/questions himself, and we had some good conversations about it.

I still sometimes have those “Dear God…” thoughts. I ignore them.

If you are interested in other people with different perspectives you might try the following instead of video games:

Unitarians
Quakers (I go regularly)
Philosophical Society

I, too, have religious relatives. One way to tackle this is to make a deal with them. Say “I’ll read that book you suggested if you’ll read Demon-Haunted World (or whatever, maybe something on evolution).” Then follow up - come here for good counterarguments. Only do this if you really want to talk about it - if you’d rather avoid the whole thing that’s up to you.

23

I totally disagree with the concept of punishing someone for lack of belief. This is totally anti-christian (it’s persecution).

However while you’re still a minor and living in your parents’ custody and at their expense, you will probably have to grin and bear it. It may be that they will never accept your questioning/rejection of their faith. This is likely to be very hard in future for your whole family and there are no easy answers.

I suggest you try to get in touch with open-minded, ecumenical-type christians/church leaders - of any denomination - and discuss your issues with them. They may even be able to talk to you parents for you.

I wish you luck - I think you are probaby going to have to grow away from your parents earlier than is easier for many young people. It’s hard to have to reject your parents’ beliefs and ideologies. But it is courageous and the right thing to try and find your own path.

24

If you are looking for some good books to read, bhb, I recommend writings by Robert Ingersoll, the Great Agnostic, whose Some Mistakes of Moses should not be missed.

After you finish with his works, you might try some of Michael Martin’s books. His Atheism: A Philosophical Approach is still the best book (IMHO) on countering theologistic arguments, but it is very heavy reading. For something lighter, try Michael Martin’s The Case Against Christianity, Dan Barker’s Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist and Judith Hayes’ In God We Trust: But Which One?

25

And if you’re looking for something a little lighter, try Waiting for the Galactic Bus, and its sequel, The Snake Oil Wars or Scheherazade Ginsberg Strikes Again by Parke Godwin.