I pit my mom.

Last night I called home to ask my parents a question. Once that was done, my mother hesitantly asked me a question. ‘What does D&D have to do with religion?’

A little background. I was raised Catholic, and became an atheist after years of searching and questioning and research. The decision was not well received. I have played D&D & other RPGs for decades now, starting when I was in grade school.

So apparently my mother heard from someone else at the hospital she works at that D&D can make people lose their religion. I spent a minute describing what D&D has to do with religion (very little), and told her that D&D does not, in fact, make people lose religion any more than anything else does. I have played RPGs with Catholics, Mormons, pagans, atheists, and ‘other’. I talked about the whole ‘D&D causes Satanism’ bullshit scare that went around in the 80s, and how a lot of Christian groups still oppose D&D because of it.

At this point she takes off on yet another ‘I don’t know why you abandoned your faith, you’re going to hell, how could you throw away everything you were raised with’ speech. I hear this about every other time I talk to her. Most of the time I can restrain myself and avoid an argument. Not tonight.

And of course, it doesn’t matter. She isn’t having a discussion, she simply wants me to accept what she’s saying and magically change my whole world view. I hear all the oldies: ‘But you’re going to hell’, ‘god exists, I know it’, ‘you have to have faith’, ‘I see god everywhere’, ‘why don’t you try praying, it might work’ and my personal favorite ‘I don’t know much about the bible, I hear everything I need at church’. But she doesn’t hear anything I say. She just waits until I finish talking and responds with either ‘You have to have faith’ or ‘I just don’t understand how you could have lost your faith.’, over and over and over.

So my questions don’t matter? The fact that you, and everyone else, can’t seem to answer them doesn’t matter? You expect me to believe this fairy tale that you can’t explain or even tell me why you believe it? I’m supposed to just shut my brain off and not question because you told me it was true as a child? You told me about Santa Claus, and at the time, told me he was real. But then, no, he’s not real, but this other guy who also watches you all the time and also knows if you’re good or bad and who you also talk to and ask things of in a special way and also has ceremonies involving food and drink, well he’s real. Right. That’s it? That’s the best you can do? And you sit there being sad over the fact that I don’t buy this hook line and sinker?

Well I sit here appalled over the fact that you do buy this hook line and sinker, and don’t even bother firing up a couple of brain cells to think about it for long enough to understand it. I don’t know why it surprises me. You included pennies in a box that had a knife in it you gave me as a gift. Why? Because you have to. You are a certified nurse practitioner, and I had to sit down with you and explain why those bracelets with magnets on them weren’t really helping the pain in your wrist and you were better off going to see a DOCTOR about it.

I’m tired of this mom. I’ve been tired of it for years now. I’m tired of you treating my beliefs as unimportant compared to your beliefs. I’m tired of you treating me like a little child that needs correction instead of a 35 year old adult that actually knows more about what you’re talking about than you do. And I’m tired of you expecting me to follow aspects of your fairy tale just to make you happy. I’ve been the nice one about this. I’ve been patient. I’ve listened to you. You haven’t shown the same courtesy to me. I’ve had enough.

Can you explain this one? I’ve never heard of this superstition.

And, yeah, sympathy to you from this end. My mom refuses to believe that I could be an atheist because I’m a good person who simply couldn’t possibly “hate God.” The last time I tried to talk about how Christianity has absorbed lots of pagan references for Easter, she replied with “Oh yes, it’s all so commercialized these days.” :confused:

Sorry your mom is more aggressive about it.

A good tactic I’ve learned for when my mom wants to talk about something that I do not is to abruptly say, in a calm, flat tone: “Mom, I need to go. I love you and I’ll talk to you later.” Works like a charm.

As someone else who has religious differences with her parents, I can suggest two possibilities.

One is to have a talk with her in which you say that you will agree to disagree on the subject of religion, and you do not wish to have any more discussions of it in the future. If she starts discussing religion, say something like “Mom, we agreed that we wouldn’t talk about this any more” or “Mom, I’m not going to discuss this with you”. Then change the subject to something else.

The other is a sneakier version of the above. Think of a list of safe topics that are not likely to lead to a discussion of religion. Local sports teams, other family members, pets, or TV might be examples of this kind of topic. Any time she tries to lead the discussion toward religion, you change the subject to a safe topic.

Either way, don’t get sucked in when she wants to discuss religion. You’re about as likely to change her mind on it as she is to change yours. You really do have to restrain yourself and stay out of the arguments (save them for here, or for friends that you enjoy discussing this sort of thing with), because nothing productive is ever going to come out of them. Your mom didn’t reason herself into her beliefs, and it’s extremely difficult to reason yourself out of a position that you didn’t reason yourself into. It’s even more difficult to make someone who doesn’t want to reason themselves out of a position do so. In fact, it’s usually impossible to make someone do something they don’t want to do without the use of socially unacceptable coercion techniques (and even then, it’s not guaranteed).

You just have to accept that your mother has different religious beliefs than you do, and that you will never be able to have an enjoyable or productive discussion with her on that topic. There may be people in the world who you enjoy having that kind of discussion with, but your mom is never going to be one of them. You may want the kind of mom that you could discuss anything with, but that’s not what you’ve got, and there’s nothing you can do to make her change.

Yeah, I know. I try. Sometimes, especially if I’m already worked up or irritated about something, I fail. I just gotta try harder.

Apparently, it’s bad luck to give knives as a gift. The way to counter this, which my mom got wrong, is for the person who receives the knives to give the giver a penny, so that they have been paid for and are no longer a gift.

Funky.

More information. Apparently, part of the tradition is to give pennies with knives so that the receiver has pennies to give the giver.

My mom does that too. She didn’t start doing it until I gave my little step brother a 8 inch buck skinning knife and his real mom’s boyfriend killed her with it. I’t really sucks because as a guy, that’s a normal gift for me. Not to mention 5 freaking cents isn’t going to stop the hate that lives in peoples hearts.

Sorry about the shit with your mom, hfw. Tell her to hang out at church more. A lot of it is about not judging others and most importantly, about love. I can tell you’re sick of religion but I have to remind myself all the time. No hating.

You may want to avoid conversations with your mom when you’re in that sort of mood, if possible. Or if you have to talk to her then about something else, try to keep the conversation short and to the point.

I hope you don’t live with her. My religious differences with my parents are one of the things that makes living with them something I’d do only if the alternative were quite literally being homeless. If you do live with her, look into moving out, even if it means a big drop in your material standard of living or how much you’re putting aside in savings. It might be worth it.

I don’t live with them. I haven’t since I got caught in the first tech bubble burst and spent a year and a half unemployed. It wasn’t a lot of fun.

You really ought to be pitting yourself, hotflungwok, for not realizing that the correct answer to ‘What does D&D have to do with religion?’ is ‘Not a thing. Hey, thanks for the information, Mom. Give my love to Dad. Gotta go. Love you lots. Bye.’

That said, you have my sympathy.

Also, if you do forget, and get drawn into an argument, this is how you disengage: Wait until she is letting you say a sentence. In the middle of the sentence, that is, WHILE YOU ARE SPEAKING, break the connection. If she tries to re-establish the call, do not consider yourself obligated to cooperate with her efforts.

ETA: P.S. the above techniques only work over the phone.

Excellent advice. His mum is not going to think things over and say, “Hey, you’re right!” Don’t discuss it with her. In person or on the phone. If she persists in trying to “discuss” it, say, “We aren’t going to agree, so leave it alone” or words to that effect. If necessary, walk out. Calmly.

She might get the message, but even if she doesn’t, the OP will feel better by not getting into rows.

Dude, seriously, My 78-year-old grandmother still treats my 59-year-old mother this way. It’s Old World thinking, that older always = smarter, and therefore always right. It might be easier to follow some of the other suggestions in this thread (all of them good) than to get mad about it.

Lizard, who believes neither theists nor atheists can prove their point.

:eek:

ETA: I should really read the whole thread first!

The superstition I’ve heard is that the giftee is supposed to “buy” the knife from the giver with a penny, so it doesn’t sever their bond, whatever it may be (parent/child, SO/SO, whatever). I don’t know where it came from, though. I just learned of it not too long ago at a wedding shower- the bride “bought” a knife set from the giver with a penny.

My response to “What does D&D have to do with religion?” would be a puzzled look, followed by “The same thing that Parcheesi has to do with religion.”

hotflungwok, I am sorry that you have this mom. And I am absolutely horrified that she’s a nurse practitioner.

What dh said. This may be the most fucked-up thing I’ve ever read on the Dope- including all the RO threads.

Wow. That sucks, sorry to hear that. That kinda leapt off the screen outta nowhere, I have to say.

I just don’t get how a True Believer could buy into superstition. Aren’t you protected by the Supreme Almighty? Do you really think he’s got a problem with knives and will smite you if you don’t include a penny? Is there a Commandment about walking under ladders or breaking mirrors?

How do you reconcile an omnipotent, loving and protective god with ‘if I step on a crack, bad things will happen’? It’s almost like having two competing ‘religions’ going on simultaneously.

Either believe in god, or don’t. But don’t tell me you (meaning superstitious people) believe in god AND believe that it’s bad luck to put new shoes on a table. I’m fairly sure the Word of God has nothing to say against them.

ETA: You should ask your mother what giving a penny with a knife set has to do with religion.

Well at this point I am sorry I posted it. I did not intend to draw attention to myself.

The fact remains that hfw has a mother who judges him and until she stops that both he and her are going to have a problem that could interfere with their relationship until one or the other dies. That’s really the important portion of the op.