"I'd rather have been BEATEN than see you spit in God's face." REALLY??

That’s a direct quote. From my mother.

Yep, she’s at it again. The sanctimonious, melodramatic, wounded-heart, flagellant martyr act, again. It gets SO fucking old and annoying!

I’ve posted in other threads about how my parents* are capital-d Devout Christians, and how I have been an atheist for several years now. I knew even before “coming out” to them, that my mother in particular, having been raised as a Southern Baptist Convention missionary kid in deepest darkest Africa in the 40’s and 50’s, would not take kindly or happily to my departure from Xtianity. But I figured, “Ah, she’ll be sad/angry for a while, and then get over it.”

Uh-uh. At first she tried to brush off my unbelief as “just a phase” or something (“God still has big plans for you, Cy!”) But for a couple years now she has been nursing the deepest, heaviest, most soap-opera-worthy maternal self-pity fest that you’ve ever seen. And Good Og, is it ever cloying and infuriating!

Some of the more um, “interesting” things she’s said to me, about my unbelief (these quotes might not be literally word-for-word, but they’re definitely accurate and faithful to what she did say!):

I would rather have been physically beaten, than endure the pain of seeing my children spit in God’s face.” (This one is very close to word-for-word.)

So what constitutes “spitting in God’s face”? Two things, apparently:

  1. Supporting gay rights, and refusing to believe that homosexuality is a “sin”; and
  2. Denying the Bible’s divine authorship and/or denying Jesus’ divinity.

I would really, REALLY like to see her say this face-to-face to someone who has suffered through ACTUAL abuse or domestic violence! She has NO. FUCKING. CLUE. what it’s like to be beaten! (Nor do I, but I don’t use foolish, breathless superlative metaphors like this.)

[Seeing your unbelief] is like a raw, gaping, bleeding wound in my soul.”

Your father and I love you, and we are devastated by your inability to hear us or hear the Voice of God anymore.”

…and other such sophomoric, hyperbolic, nonsensical, eye-roll-inducing, dramatic posturing that reflects a purely self-inflicted malaise at best, and an insidious attempt at emotional manipulation, at worst.

I have tried to explain to my mother (sometimes gently, sometimes less than patiently) that no one–NO ONE–not me, not God, not any other being, anywhere, ever, can MAKE her feel this way. She is CHOOSING to wallow in misery and self-pity, all because…her son doesn’t share her metaphysical beliefs?? Christ almighty, what did she expect, as a parent? That I’d be her or my dad’s ideological CLONE??

Further, I have pointed out to her that this morose, overblown, pious humility is in fact arrogance in disguise. In using such extreme language to convey her disappointment with my atheism, what she is in effect actually saying is, “You have fallen SOOOO far, and now I am SOOOO much higher above you, that I’ve lost you.” The message is clear, even if unintentional or subconscious: “I remain pure and holy; you are lost.”

(A year or two ago I read about a study conducted by a cognitive psychologist and a neuroscientist into the cerebral “seats” of various emotions associated with virtue and vice. Know what they found? That when religious types express this sort of “suffering servant” rhetoric about themselves, that the same areas of the brain that are active during prideful bragging, become activated. In other words, there is reason to suspect that sanctimony, no matter how piously it’s phrased, is actually–literally–conceit in disguise. This would certainly fit well within my mother’s modus operandi.)

I love my parents. I really, really do. And in general, I get along very well with them. I’ve been very lucky; they cared well for me, educated me, supported me during many difficult periods, and have always loved me unconditionally. Things could be a LOT worse.

But this childish insistence on emotional self-flagellation that my mother displays, is one of the most despicable, puerile, nauseating rhetorical forms that I have ever seen.

I don’t know which would be worse: If she were deliberately putting on these affected airs to try to manipulate me emotionally, or if her religious pathology really is so deep that she just can’t accept that her son might not actually NEED to be a Christian! I’ll go with the latter, for now, because at least it’s relatively innocent.


*Both are graduates of William Jennings Bryan College in Dayton, TN, a fundamentalist/creationist institution. That should tell you something, right there.

The mistake you are making is trying to change her in any way possible:

Never, ever gonna fly.

You need to learn the words, “That’s nice, Mom”, and move on with your life. Or “I’m sorry you feel that way, Mom.”

If you can’t do that, and it’s harder than it looks, distance yourself as much as possible. You didn’t say how old you were. Goodness, you’re not still living at home, are you? If not, then flat out, you have a right to tell her “I need a break from you mom. I need to sort out my own feelings.” And take a break from her.

I’m 35. Live 1,000 miles away from my folks, with my own family.

You’re right; I really should just ignore her.

But I a) despise foolishness when people display it, and try to correct it whenever possible; and b) really DON’T want her to hurt unnecessarily.

But if she wants to ache and moan and hurt and weep and mourn, well, whatever.

35 years old? That’s plenty of time to learn to let the bullshit in one ear and out of the other, without it even registering on your emotions. Especially for your dear old mum’s sake.

Stop the presses! I think ivan might have a point (for once)!

:wink:

Stop. You said it, she is only hurting because she is letting herself. There comes a point where you cannot be responsible for someone else’s emotions.

You are almost the same age as me, and you sound like me - generally we are nice people and don’t want to see others hurt. But I can’t help the way they feel.

If you don’t call her as often, and remain distant from her, when you do talk to her you should set some ground rules. First offense: “Mom, I don’t want to talk about that. Let’s talk about…” Second offense: “Mom, I am not talking about religion. If you do, I will hang up and we can talk when you are more ready to talk about other things.” AND FOLLOW THROUGH! You have to be careful never to say this in anger or in whininess. Practice on your spouse. Say it calmly and cooly and with no emotion behind it except firmness.

And if you are indeed correctiing foolishness whereever you find it, how are you finding time to do anything else? :slight_smile:

You and your mother are making the exact same mistake. Both of you think that you can get someone to do something.

No.

You can make yourself do stuff, but that’s where your power ends. You cannot talk her out of this because - you’re right - she’s doing it to herself. There are no magic words you can say to “get” her to stop, and more than there are magic words she can say to “get” you to be religious.

Adjust your expectations accordingly. Accept that this is who she is and this is always how she will talk to you. Find a stock phrase to answer her every time she trots out this b.s. (“I’m sorry you feel that way” is one option) and respond with that same phrase every single time she starts up. Let her learn that she will constantly get the same reaction from you.

(Thought exercise: do you still think she would love you unconditionally if you came out as being Teh Gay? No need to answer here.)

Yes.

This is exactly what they expected. It’s what most parents expect at some level.

I foresee myself doing something similar, except it won’t be about silly bronze age sheep herder myths, no, it would be about important stuff. Like gaming.
“Son, the day you told me you purchased an xbox 620, you tore a gaping wound on your old da’s PC gaming soul.”

“… And when you plugged in your Wii 20000 console into my 28” PC monitor to show off to your console harlots, I experienced pain like nothing I’ve experienced before - not even that time I threw the mouse at the wall for loosing a starcraft III match to your mom and it bounced and conked me in the head".

A little more on topic: My dad was the fervent religious one. his whole side of the family is. I couldn’t stand his bigoted views toward gays (I remember one time he told me he’d rather I’d be dead than gay!) and had many fights over religion with him.

When he passed I stopped all contact with his side of the family, which I regret doing sometimes, because some of them were good peoples.

My mom is not a religious nutter but she’s a bit into a lot of woo woo. I try to set her straight whenever I get a chance.

Your mom sounds pretty emo.

Some snappy answers to say to yourself the next time these roll around:

“Go cut yourself a switch, Ma, and we’ll test that hypothesis.”

“I’ll go get the salt.”

Everybody, all together now. 1 - 2 - 3…
“I’m sorry, did you say something?”

The thing is, from your mother’s point of view, this is a REALLY BIG DEAL. She thinks her precious child has condemned himself to Hell for all eternity, and she firmly believes she can still “save” you from that horrible fate. Her tactics probably are very annoying, but her motivation is pure–although misguided. She is probably not doing the things she does just to piss you off. She’s offering you the best thing she has to offer, in her belief system.

Yeah, Oakminster’s right, but it doesn’t make it easier. Parents have a blind spot about the whole thing - I came out as an agnostic to my parents when I was sixteen. A few months ago I told them I was doing the whole Buddhist thing and my dad says, “So you don’t believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ?” I told him I’d told him that more than a decade ago, but I don’t think he believed me. At the end of dinner he said with a laugh, “Now don’t be doing any of that wacky stuff!”, as if I’d told him I was going raw food or something.

You’ve just got to be a duck and let the water go for this one, I’m afraid. Arguing with her will only hurt her.

I know Kinthalis has touched upon this, but I want to repeat: Many parents expect just that. For many people their children exist solely as extensions of themselves. Obviously there are degrees to this self-delusion, and how harmful it may be. It’s common and even a normal expectation.

For all that it’s infuriating for you to deal with.

As for dealing with the situation, I think Anaamika has suggested the best way to deal with things: Set limits on the acceptable topics of conversation, and enforce them. Not angrily, just firmly.

Good luck, and I’m glad to hear that you do feel that overall you have a good and loving relationship with your parents.

I laughed out loud in my office, at this. Thanks. :smiley:

Next time she talks about a gaping wound, ask if you can get her some salt for that.

Awesome. I think I might actually use a couple of these.

For realz. I have not been above employing sarcasm when battling the (Parental) Enemies of Reason. :wink:

Yeah, I know. But that’s exactly why it’s all so pathetic! It’s built on nothing more than a pie-in-the-sky belief system! :eek:

What I mean is, if I were REALLY in danger, and refusing to accept any help, I could understand her maternal anguish over “losing” me. But no such thing is happening. It’s all in her head, because of a lifetime’s worth of bullshit fairy tales that she thinks is, well…Gospel Truth. :dubious:

Sad.

Eh. Just tell moms that Gawd needs to get off his pasty white ass and hit you with lightning bolts already.

-Joe

Win. Oh my, yes. Win. :smiley:

[Funny…my brother’s name is Joe, and this is EXACTLY the sort of thing he would say: clever and funny, but cheeky and dismissive. You’re not my brother in disguise, are you?? :eek:]

My mom’s not anywhere near that annoying, and my dad less so, but if they ever did get in my face I would tell them that I have a couple problems with their belief system, and one of them is that they’re satanists.

(cue surprise, then shock, then denial)

“No really mom - your diety is satanic. I couldn’t worship a demon like that, even if I wanted to. Sorry.”

I wouldn’t be staying for dinner that night.