I unhappily report that I am right about obesity and diet (Very long)

[billfish678]

@TravisFromOR

Maybe he didn’t want her, to well, die? Her obesity caused her premature and rather unpleasant death. Grandma’s weight wasn’t irrelevant.

No,

Stoid is right. She has astutely read between the lines, teasing out how I really feel. I hate fat people. I think they are sub-human. I just love seeing them in misery. :rolleyes:

Crafterman has made some good points recently. The whole relationship to food has to change. Just like people with drinking problems, gambling problems, and other serious “problems”. They have to change their relationship to the thing that causes the problem. If its really bad, they can’t even have the same normal relationship with whatever it is that most people can. Yeah, that sucks, but life aint fair. Now maybe Stoids latest diet will work. You never know. But after ALL these years and ALL these diets, it sounds like diets arent the solution.

[Cicero]

I wish this thread would get bulimic and fade away.

[MsWhatsit]

@Stoid

And then shut the fuck up and enjoy being with your grandmother.

You know, it is really rare that something on this message board manages to upset me. Really, really rare. It’s just the Internet and I don’t usually get too emotionally involved in the threads I post in on here.

But you should know that my grandmother was one of the most important people in my life, she never showed me anything but love and support even when my life was going to shit, I still miss her constantly and wish I had her around to talk to, and I never ever EVER breathed one word to her about the food that she ate. For fuck’s sake, I was a little kid for most of the time that I knew her. So you can take your judgmental poisonous bullshit and cram it up your ass. I am done with you and I am done with this thread.

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

I’m telling you, though, that your self-reporting here makes it sound like this is a fairly frequent habit with you

Based on my reports of the nutmeg cake, and one planned meal of cornbread, you conclude that I’m just mistaken or forgetting that I’m also eating whole pies every other Saturday and two dozen cookies at least twice a month. If you believe that actually makes sense, ok.

I have never heard that, and I guarantee that it’s not true.

Well, I can’t argue with this, I never had kids. It’s just what I’ve heard.

That all depends on what the one thing is, and how often it’s happening, and whether it’s ever balanced out with healthy things.

Of course. (Well, it doesn’t really matter what it is, which was my point, since it’s only for two days every few months)

[Stoid]

@billfish678

No,

Stoid is right. She has astutely read between the lines, teasing out how I really feel. I hate fat people. I think they are sub-human. I just love seeing them in misery. :rolleyes:

Why yes, that’s what I said exactly, and clearly what I meant. It was all about you.

Allow me to offer you a :rolleyes: of your very own.

[Stoid]

@Cicero

I wish this thread would get bulimic and fade away.

Why? Is it forcibly assaulting your browser every time you visit the forums, opening up automatically and forcing you to read it?

[Crotalus]

Stoid, when do you sleep? You appear to be posting around the clock.

[Stoid]

@MsWhatsit

You know, it is really rare that something on this message board manages to upset me. Really, really rare. It’s just the Internet and I don’t usually get too emotionally involved in the threads I post in on here.

But you should know that my grandmother was one of the most important people in my life, she never showed me anything but love and support even when my life was going to shit, I still miss her constantly and wish I had her around to talk to, and I never ever EVER breathed one word to her about the food that she ate. For fuck’s sake, I was a little kid for most of the time that I knew her. So you can take your judgmental poisonous bullshit and cram it up your ass. I am done with you and I am done with this thread.

It wasn’t directed at you, MsWhatsit, it was directed travis, who was defending the idea that someone, he thought it was billfish, had in fact given their grandmother a hard time by saying it was motivated by concern over her health.

I didn’t accuse you of anything at all.

[Stoid]

@Crotalus

Stoid, when do you sleep? You appear to be posting around the clock.

I actually haven’t tonight. Been trying to finish something and it’s involved a lot of waiting for stuff.

[ladyfoxfyre]

@Drain_Bead

I’m making a proposition that nobody in this thread is going to make. Not only is this a healthy way to eat, it’s the healthiest way to eat.

You’re absolutely right, about people who are sticking to a low-carb diet and modifying their relationships with food. Stoid is doing nothing of the sort.

People aren’t making value judgments on low-carb dieting, they are criticizing her interpretation of it. She constantly makes excuses for everything she does. She has trouble taking responsibility for her actions, and if you read the thread carefully she finds elaborate ways of twisting things to be not-really-her-fault.

So let’s recap here:

Stoid is fat, she does an experiment for a month where she reduces her caloric intake by a couple hundred calories a day, and starts working out. But working out is outside her normal degree of comfort, and dieting is hard, and she decides dieting doesn’t work. Her “unfortunate” realization is that fat people have 1,000 times harder of a time losing weight because their bodies are broken. Also diets don’t work.

Someone suggests she read Taubes, and miracle of all miracles, he tells her in his book that she’s absolutely right! Good thing she is so welcoming of opionions that exactly mirror her own, demonstrating her ability to change her mind. He says calories don’t matter, not at all! Even in these studies that directly contradict his theory. Also Taubes is not a scientist of any kind.

We discuss Taubes. Stoid is impervious to any criticism of his theories, and there is much criticism. From many people who are very well versed in reading medical research. But Stoid is undeterred, demonstrating her receptiveness to opinions other than her own. Low carb is the One True Way. Because calories don’t matter. Fine, we say. We aren’t debating the low carb movement, we are debating Taubes’ interpretation of it, and also his blatant misuse of research to “support” his point. And Stoid’s sudden complete devotion to that particular interpretation.

What goes on a low-carb menu? Oh, cornbread. A couple meals worth. And fried food. But we can’t quite get that flour batter just, exactly right! What, carbs? No, it’s just cheese and peppers! All super healthy stuff after all. I mean, I could say that pizza is just bread and tomatos and cheese and some veggies, so it’s basically so healthy I should eat it every day. But that’s neither here nor there, Stoid’s diet is Very Low Carb. And well, whatever she wants really because even though calories don’t count, she aptly demonstrates that the actual caloric content of all of these carbs is pretty low in the grand scheme of things. She doesn’t realize that this is pretty much the exact opposite of the low carb diet she was touting, and a direct contradiction of the dozens of times she told us that calories don’t matter. This is pointed out to her, she accuses us all of misinterpreting her. Also, read the book!!!
So what we end up with is Stoid’s diet, where calories don’t matter except when they are being used to defend your choice of splurge-meals mere days after starting a new diet. Because dieting is hard, and healthy food tastes bad, and working out makes you hot. Being hot is uncomfortable. And when people judge her for her food choices, or judge your grandmother for her choices, well they should just shut the fuck up and respect her right to be fat. Because after all, it’s not her fault.

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

You were convinced because his book supports a conclusion you had already come to, though. That’s a little different from being convinced of something you didn’t actually believe in the first place.

His book certainly explained my experience and observations of others, that’s true.

[Crotalus]

@Stoid

I actually haven’t tonight. Been trying to finish something and it’s involved a lot of waiting for stuff.

All-nighters are not a healthy choice, especially for the middle-aged.

[Sarahfeena]

@Stoid

Based on my reports of the nutmeg cake, and one planned meal of cornbread, you conclude that I’m just mistaken or forgetting that I’m also eating whole pies every other Saturday and two dozen cookies at least twice a month. If you believe that actually makes sense, ok.

No, based on the way you talk about food in general. You talk like a person who is 1) obsessed with food, and 2) constantly convincing yourself that you don’t eat that much.

NOTE: I am not saying you are LYING about what you eat. I am saying that your tone and words sound as though you are not, yourself, taking in the whole picture. Every time you tell us about some huge indulgence, and everyone says, “well, gee, Stoid, maybe that’s your problem right there,” you run the numbers and say “no, look! Only 800 calories for an entire day!” It seems very very much like something is missing from the picture, and that’s why everyone is a little bit .

[Stoid]

@Crafter_Man

She is smarter than people who have lost weight and have permanently kept it off, so why listen to them?

Really chaps your ass that I don’t view you as the One True Savior, doesn’t it? I gave you your due, Crafter_man, acknowledging your mighty will several times. I’m sorry you find it insufficient, but I just have to be true to my school. And if I fail, well, at least I can’t blame you.

[Elysian]

@Stoid

It wasn’t directed at you, MsWhatsit, it was directed travis, who was defending the idea that someone, he thought it was billfish, had in fact given their grandmother a hard time by saying it was motivated by concern over her health.

I didn’t accuse you of anything at all.

You are the one who said it. It doesn’t matter who it was directed to. You hurt her, and you should apologise.

[Stoid]

@Sarahfeena

No, based on the way you talk about food in general. You talk like a person who is 1) obsessed with food, and 2) constantly convincing yourself that you don’t eat that much.

NOTE: I am not saying you are LYING about what you eat. I am saying that your tone and words sound as though you are not, yourself, taking in the whole picture. Every time you tell us about some huge indulgence, and everyone says, “well, gee, Stoid, maybe that’s your problem right there,” you run the numbers and say “no, look! Only 800 calories for an entire day!” It seems very very much like something is missing from the picture, and that’s why everyone is a little bit .

I loves me some food Sarahfeena, that’s true. But so do a whole lot of people, fat, thin, and in between.

And other people deciding that I’m delusional is kinda the whole theme of the thread. If you go back to the OP, you’ll see what I mean.

And try to stay in the reality of what you’ve actually heard. “Every time you tell us about some huge indulgence” - makes it sound like I’ve offered up multiple instances of huge indulgences. And guess what, I haven’t offered up any, really - at least not the real ones. The ones I’ve told you about weren’t all that huge after all! I ate cornbread for one night, just cornbread. 800 calories or so. It was all I ate. That’s a Big Mac and a small fries, no drink! So what’s so huge about it, so outta control, so self-delusional? Ummm…nothing. And every few months I make a nutmeg cake and eat it over the course of two days, along with milk and coffee. That’s 1800 calories. The recommended amount for a woman my age and activity level. God forbid anyone should recognize that I am actually NOT bullshitting myself by making sure I eat “normal” food in addition to the cake. I know I want cake, I’m gonna eat cake. So maybe I should just stick with cake, rather than pile on more? Maybe I should just indulge myself so that I’m over it and ready to eat healthy after I’m done?

You’re making enormous leaps of logic based on nothing except your personal reaction to the idea of eating only my indulgence food. But really, there’s nothing inherently awful about it. Certainly nothing that justifies your assumption that it’s this “outta control!” eating that’s my problem, not least because it’s not how I eat most of the time.

[Stoid]

@Elysian

You are the one who said it. It doesn’t matter who it was directed to. You hurt her, and you should apologise.

I thought about it, and after careful consideration, I concluded that I could not offer a sincere apology, and those are really the only kind I’m comfortable with.

[Stoid]

@Crotalus

All-nighters are not a healthy choice, especially for the middle-aged.

I agree.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

@Stoid

My OP was not about low-carb. My point was primarily: fat people don’t necessarily eat huge amounts of food. I was pretty sure I wasn’t eating that much even when I wasn’t making any effort, and now that I’ve made an effort, I know I’m right: I can maintain my morbid obesity on very modest calories. And I think this is a direct result of decades of yo-yo dieting.

That was the first 200 or so posts. Then I read Taubes’ book, and the focus shifted. Taubes’ convinced me that carbohydrates are the primary culprit, one way or another, behind obesity. While I knew low-carb worked, I never had any beliefs around carbohydrates specifically, and I actually didn’t really trust that low-carb could be safe.

Therefore, I am plainly able to be convinced.

You know Stoid, Sarafeena pretty much encapsulated it in post #871, and I think an apology to MsWhatsit would have been the noble thing.

My beliefs about morbid obesity vary greatly from yours; as do my experience of nutritionally rich foods, as opposed to what you may see as “not eating much.” I have a morbidly obese friend who certainly eats much, much less than I do - but her foods are either canned, frozen, fried, processed, pre-prepared, flavoured, coloured, or enriched; and those that are fresh are either cooked to death or cooked to death.

So yes - she eats less. And what nutrition she may garner from that is debatable. What seems clear to me is that her understanding of food is quite lacking, and there is no balance in what she does. (Including her sleep patterns.)

That you are so attached to this idea of Taubes’ means there is no point in reiterating what many have already said. What I will say though Stoid, is that it sadly comes across (as with my friend) that you are too lazy to even feed your dog properly - even though you’ve been told better by a vet.

That, to me, about says it all.

Certainly I wish you luck with your endeavour.

[Sarahfeena]

@Stoid

I loves me some food Sarahfeena, that’s true. But so do a whole lot of people, fat, thin, and in between.

And other people deciding that I’m delusional is kinda the whole theme of the thread. If you go back to the OP, you’ll see what I mean.

I never said “delusional.” That’s a pretty strong word for “mistaken and maybe kidding yourself a bit.”

And try to stay in the reality of what you’ve actually heard. “Every time you tell us about some huge indulgence” - makes it sound like I’ve offered up multiple instances of huge indulgences. And guess what, I haven’t offered up any, really - at least not the real ones.

Exactly.

The ones I’ve told you about weren’t all that huge after all! I ate cornbread for one night, just cornbread. 800 calories or so. It was all I ate. That’s a Big Mac and a small fries, no drink! So what’s so huge about it, so outta control, so self-delusional?

Nothing. Not delusional at all. Just NOT THE WHOLE STORY. That’s exactly my point.

Ummm…nothing. And every few months I make a nutmeg cake and eat it over the course of two days, along with milk and coffee. That’s 1800 calories. The recommended amount for a woman my age and activity level. God forbid anyone should recognize that I am actually NOT bullshitting myself by making sure I eat “normal” food in addition to the cake. I know I want cake, I’m gonna eat cake. So maybe I should just stick with cake, rather than pile on more? Maybe I should just indulge myself so that I’m over it and ready to eat healthy after I’m done?

You’re making enormous leaps of logic based on nothing except your personal reaction to the idea of eating only my indulgence food. But really, there’s nothing inherently awful about it. Certainly nothing that justifies your assumption that it’s this “outta control!” eating that’s my problem, not least because it’s not how I eat most of the time.

No, I’m not making enormous leaps of logic. I’m assuming that something is being left out of the story here. And, apparently I wasn’t wrong.