One of the things with Paleo is trying to avoid the processed stuff. I keep to more Primal than pure Paleo (I eat dairy, for example), and I use organic ingredients whenever I can.
This is the recipe I used–if your almond butter is unsalted, increase the salt to close to two teaspoons. In my oven, 32 minutes is perfect. I would keep it closer to 30 than 40–they get a bit too cakey if overcooked.
I haven’t read every post, so please forgive me if I’m repating something, but I just have to respond to those people who are posting saying that weight loss (in theory) is easy. Consume fewer calories. Ha!! When your body is at a stable weight (and the majority of overweight people are at a stable, although higher weight) and you consume fewer calories than your body needs to maintain that weight, you experience hunger. Hunger can be tolerated short term. It is almost physically impossible to tolerate it over the extended periods of time required for significant weight loss.
It’s like telling someone to sleep less. Sure, you can do it for a bit, but we all know how extended sleep deprivation can lead to extreme behavior changes.
Now, pretend you are suffering from extreme sleep deprivation…and there are pillows everywhere and low lighting, everyone around you is sleeping… that is how hard it is to diet.
Thanks! I will have to experiment with that, sounds good.
And I have an update of sorts, I picked up some Ketostix: I am throwing ketones to beat the band! Instant dark purple. So whatever else is going on, the fat is ablaze!
Fascinatin’ facts, including something which might actually explain why one can eat more calories doing low-carb (I havent’ followed up on this, just posting it as found.)
I’d never heard that claim before, regarding the ketones indicating incompletely burned calories.
Those studies, as usual, do not mean what you think they mean.
The first study concludes that weighing yourself less often correllates in a gain of weight. Any variation between the group that weighs themselves daily and the group that weighs themselves weekly fits within the standard deviation.
The second study (an article, rather, quoting a study, rather unreliable evidence) advocates weighing yourself at least weekly. And it goes on to say:
"Regular weighing is one thing. But every single day? After all, hormonal changes, fluid intake, sweating, medications and salt intake cause day-to-day, hour-to-hour differences in body weight of up to several pounds.
At Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers, dieters weigh in each week with their personal consultants or at meetings. ‘We encourage them to take a break from daily weigh-ins because weight fluctuates,’ says Jenny Craig spokeswoman Gail Manginelli. ‘It can be demoralizing.’"
You’re not reading things closely, once again, which makes “your understanding extremely limited”.
To be clear, when the first study say “weighing yourself less often” it means that in the beginning you weighed yourself X times a month, and a year later if you weigh yourself <X times a month you will have likely gained weight.
It does NOT say that groups that weigh themselves frequently (meaning at least once a week) will lose more the more they weigh.
As usual, you are just making things up as you go.
You said (for reasons that completely escape me, but whatever):
And I said:
Let me parse that for you:
[ul]
[li] You think I should weigh myself less often. You agree with Weight Watchers that it’s better.[/li][li] I disagree. Me personally, because it works for me, and that’s the entire reason I do it.[/li][li] In addition, (contrary to your self-serving and desperate attempt to make your declaration on the subject of how often I should weigh myself less ignorant), the studies that have been done show such a clear correlation between long term success and frequent weighing, that the people responsible for those studies and for that research*** recommend it, although they aren’t fast and firm about exactly what aspect of doing it is meaningful or whether it is a cause or an effect. But the takeway was definitely: doing it is good.***[/li][/ul]
Now, as for what you said…
Yep.
then you say:
Although why you say it is mysterious. Are you subtly questioning the conclusions of the study based on your own reading of the data, Elysian? If so, speak up!
Tell me, Elysian Who Delves So Deeply: Did you try googling that study? The one that appeared in the Annals of Behavioral Medicine? The one I got thousands of hits on, since it was cited and quoted pretty much everywhere? The one the article was talking about, which states, in remarkably plain and unambiguous language:
Oh, wait, you get confused by font colors and sizes, here’s the plain vanilla version:
And of course, you got very confused about the study’s recommendations vs. the opinion of the article’s author, you thought the study recommended weekly weighing when it plainly recommends daily, and you also seemed to be under the impression that the opinions of Jenny Craig shills was of more value than the study:
Which, in the end, amounts to you saying what you said to begin with: You think Weight Watchers is correct. Me, I’m all with the Yay, Science! Yay, Data! Yay, Research!
And taken together, it’s pretty clear that this:
was you having a stern talk with yourself.
(The second study came to the same conclusions:
You are quoting an abstract of the study. Not the original study itself.
You misread “The first study concludes that weighing yourself less often correllates in a gain of weight.”
I clarified this in my second post, because I knew you would misread it.
“To be clear, when the first study say “weighing yourself less often” it means that in the beginning you weighed yourself X times a month, and a year later if you weigh yourself <X times a month you will have likely gained weight.”
That means if you, Stoid, started out weighing yourself every day, if you then started weighing yourself twice a month you are likely to gain weight.
This DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POINT.
Or, since you are apparently blind to anything except bold, italics, whatnot:
THIS. DOES. NOT. SUPPORT. YOUR. POINT.
Now, do you understand?
Clearly you have some reading issues. Perhaps it relates to your ADD?
I was actually saying that since you bounce around every day a few pounds you would likely get a better understanding of the trend of your weight loss if you weighed yourself less often. Or, as I quoted from the article YOU linked:
“Regular weighing is one thing. But every single day? After all, hormonal changes, fluid intake, sweating, medications and salt intake cause day-to-day, hour-to-hour differences in body weight of up to several pounds.”
That’s all I was saying. shrug Silly of me, really, trying to help you. 
Elysian, do you know what an abstract is, in the context of published scientific research?
I’m going to assume you don’t because the statement above doen’t make any sense if you do.
In scientific research, the abstract is the opening paragraph, and the summary of the purpose and intended result of the research. It is not only a part of the original study, it is the study in capsule form.
To be more specific
When a researcher or team of researchers wants to run an experiment to be published, they start by creating the abstract and designing the methodology of the experiment. They then present the abstract & methodology design to the peer group for review. The peer group then gives feedback on the methodology, and the researchers modify their methodology based on the feedback. It’s not until they’ve finished this that they start doing actual data collection.
I may have forgotten something - it’s been nearly thirty years since I’ve done this.
Reviewing both of the studies, I’d say that it doesn’t prove Stoid’s point, and it does.
The first study doesn’t because it’s focusing on people who are in maintenance mode, and studying what happens when people stop weighing themselves, rather than what happens when people weigh theirselves every day. And you can get into chicken and egg debates on that. It also shows that people who weigh once a week do nearly as well as people who weigh once a day.
It does however support Stoid’s point, by showing that people who weighed theirself daily maintained their weight over the year, and that therefore weighing yourself every day does not make it less likely that you will maintain (or possibly lose) weight.
The second link is an article based on a research study; and mostly the author is discussing her take on the subject. So I found the original study:
Self-weighing in weight gain prevention and weight loss trials
It states specifically (in the abstract)
Again, even if you want to debate which leads to which, you can still take away that weighing yourself more will not make it harder to lose weight.
My take on daily weighing:
First, if I understand the way WW works correctly, they have a vested interest in having you weigh only once a week (am I right on that? Aren’t you supposed to go weigh in every week, and they get money during the weigh-in? Or they get money if you gained weight or something like that?)
Secondly, I suspect that the idea of weighing yourself only once a week probably started when some Doctor couldn’t answer the question “Why did I lose a pound when I ate badly, then gained a pound when I ate properly?”
I think Stoid may be a little more reasonable, or intelligent than that.
Thirdly, IMO more data is always better than less data. What if one Saturday a person is dehydrated, and the next Saturday she is retaining water? A weekly weigh-in would make it look like she hadn’t lost any weight, but a daily weigh-in would expose the variance.
None of this is true. You can weigh yourself all you want on their plan, but the public weigh in is part of your commitment to the goal. It has no impact on money spent except if you’ve achieved life membership - which remains free as long as you maintain your weight loss. WW has no strong recommendation on whether you should weigh yourself during the week.
More data is good if the person understands it in context. Getting depressed because you gained 2 lbs one day and you respond with emotional eating is not good. Understanding your body’s rhythms is important, but for gradual, long term weight loss there is little benefit in micromanaging. It’s not bad by itself, but it’s not necessarily beneficial either.
Yeah, if you’re someone who is fascinated by the weight variations and interested in the patterns that develop, that’s fine. If you’re someone who is obsessed with the scale and who thinks the only value in changing eating habits is losing weight asap, then you should weigh less frequently and trust the process.
So. Have you lost any weight? If you have reported it and I missed the post I apologise. I read the first page, then skipped to the end here. Such a long thread…
[QUOTE=Zyada]
Elysian, do you know what an abstract is, in the context of published scientific research?
I’m going to assume you don’t because the statement above doen’t make any sense if you do.
In scientific research, the abstract is the opening paragraph, and the summary of the purpose and intended result of the research. It is not only a part of the original study, it is the study in capsule form.
[/QUOTE]
Thank you very much for this 101. I of course know what an abstract is. The reason why I said it was just an abstract is that there really wasn’t anything about daily weighing vs. weekly weighing in the abstract…i.e. not providing a full picture. Higher weighing frequency? Does that contrast weekly and daily? Is there that much difference? Not available in the short abstract.
[QUOTE=Elysian]
You know, you really should weigh yourself only once a week, because daily fluctuations will make it look like you haven’t lost anything. Weight Watchers advocates that, and I think it’s correct.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Stoid]
I disagree. So does all the data we have on the subject. So you and Weight Watchers need to catch up.
I believe I’ll stick with what actually works best.
[/QUOTE]
Sigh…this was Stoid’s point, that all data contradicts the fact that you should weigh yourself once a week. She quoted one study (which only went into the weighing yourself less over time) and one article, which did not support her argument, and in fact supported weekly weighing because of daily fluctuations. When I told her that, she quoted a couple of things from an abstract, which even though you helpfully read the abstract again, only says that higher frequency is associated with higher loss…but not a whole lot else.
None of this supported Stoid’s original point, which was ALL data contradicts weighing yourself once a week.
It doesn’t.
I suppose you got confused because I said “original” study, which you are correct, abstracts are part of the original study. I should have said “full” study, and I apologise, and admit I was wrong.
Unless I missed a further update, Stoid’s last report of her weight indicated that she has lost 12 pounds so far since beginning the low carb eating plan. I’m not positive but I’m thinking that was in about 6 weeks…?
My understanding of the low carb premise (and I don’t have a cite - perhaps my interpretation is incorrect?) is that this way of eating (low carb, high protein, high fat) is more successful in maintaining muscle while you are losing fat. Therefore you are less likely than on a high carb diet to end up as ‘skinny fat’. Which is to say, a certain percentage of the weight lost may be due to the body consuming its own muscle mass to compensate for the lost calories to which it has become accustomed. So you could end up at an appropriate weight but still have the ‘muffin top’ or belly fat that may have inspired you to go on a diet in the first place.
As indicated, I don’t have any scientific studies to cite, but many of those on low carb diets seem to indicate that even when no weight is lost, they continue to reduce inches and clothing sizes. Its anecdotal evidence, of course, but - is it true?
I agree, saying that ALL the data supports her point is an invalid statement.
You might as well say that for any statement that says that ALL of the data agrees. Scientific research is such that you can always find at least one or two papers that prove your point, and one or two that refute it. That’s why meta-analysis is so important.
OTOH, it can be very frustrating when people tell you to not do things your way, and to do things their way, and frustration often leads to hyperbole.
What point are you imagining that is, exactly?
Because here’s my point: I disagree with you that weighing myself less often would be “better”: I think weighing myself as often as I do is best. Period. No details, no debate, no greater examination of your reasons for believing as you do, or of mine, because I don’t care what you think and I don’t care if you know why I choose to weigh myself every day.
In fact, that’s exactly why the studies were offered: to shortcut any attempt to debate the relative worthiness of my reasons vs. your opinions. You were supposed to recognize that: “I disagree. The people who have more than a personal opinion to go on agree that my choice is the better one if my goal is lose and keep it off. That’s my goal, that’s what I’m doing…let’s move on.”
Your point (which only you have taken any interest in) appears to be that you, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig shills and the author of that article disagree with the researchers who have actually collected the data and studied the question, and you appear to be very attached to your reasons for disagreeing. And you’re entitled! You evidently failed to notice that I made no attempt to talk you out of your opinion, or your reasoning. Nor did I offer my own reasoning. *I didn’t address the details at all. *
So,
[ul]
[li] Point One: I do it the way I know works best for me.[/li][li]Point Two: Researchers who have studied the question have independently come to the conclusion that people who weigh more frequently are more successful at losing to begin with, and if they continue to weigh frequently, are more successful at keeping the weight off. (Note the lack of answers to the question “why”, which I was specific about the first time as well, making your persistent attempts to argue the details even stranger).[/li][li]Point Three: You misunderstood or misrepresented the studies when you said the “Those studies, as usual, do not mean what you think they mean.” We both know that’s not true. They mean exactly what*** they clearly state ***they mean: “daily weighing is valuable to individuals trying to lose weight or prevent weight gain” and “frequent self-weighing may not only be important for weight loss maintenance but may also be associated with better outcomes in a weight loss intervention and in the prevention of weight gain” Which I “think” :rolleyes: means: I am someone trying to lose weight and keep it off. Hence, my decision,(based on reasoning I still haven’t discussed) to weigh myself frequently is likely to be a good one.[/li][/ul]
So if you want to engage someone in a discussion about why you think less frequent weighing is better, I invite you to do so. But it will have to be with someone who isn’t me.
And your point is what? Abstracts completely mislead as to the contents of the study itself? I’m just guessing, of course, if you have a point you’ll have to spell it out.
As for your second post, I didn’t misread it, I didn’t pay any attention to it at all once I realized you were obviously having a conversation with yourself: your concern about someone thinking “groups that weight themselves frequently will lose more the more they weigh” (my emphasis) was weird to begin with. Do you really think someone would read the paper and conclude that the act of weighing oneself somehow causes weight loss, independent of anything else, and perhaps start weighing themselves every hour in hopes of boosting weight loss (which is my parsing of your sentence)? Because I think anyone who did conclude that was a moron to begin with. YMMV. If I didn’t understand your point it still doesn’t matter because it’s a debate you’re only having with yourself anyway.
Finally, all due respect to your winky close: history, both immediate and farther back, strongly points to the likelihood of your having a genuine desire to “help” me being so vanishingly small as to be non-existent.
Ding ding ding!
DING DING DING!!!
We have a winner! 
Back to the OP, were you really unhappy to announce that you were right all along? That doesn’t seem to jibe with subsequent follow ups.
I was very unhappy to be restricting my calories so severely and not losing any weight to speak of, yes, and I was very clear about it.
Are you under the impression that one is under some obligation to remain in a static state that remains consistent with the title of their OP? That would be odd…
It was a joke based on how you seem to really enjoy being right.