Look, man, I may be an eldritch wizard whose endless plots ensnare the entire galaxy, sowing discord and suspicion, driving brother against brother, undermining order and spreading chaos, until a frightened galaxy finally looks to me as the only one whose iron grasp can bring peace to a desperate and fractured Republic… but I’m not a fuckin’ bigot.
To be fair, he isn’t defending the misogyny contained in the OP.
He’s just defending the murder of a 6 year old child.
I love how you alter the scenario here to make her single action seem like an “aggressive maybe even bullying behavior to an unknown person”. There was no genitalia swinging contest. The women simply flipped the shooter the bird after he cut her off.
I also love how you then diminish her motherhood by claiming that she’s not also a victim. The MAGA hat was a nice touch too.
My post ASKED “So curious. If the OP kept the sexist trolling out of the post would it have found some agreement? Say this was a dad with a MAGA hat …” Yes I suspected that some here would be piling on the same reckless aggressiveness if was that and they were not distracted by the misogynistic trolling. But no, I did not say “had this been a MAGA wearing male, then he would not be blameless”.
Nor does believing that recklessness that results in harm equals some share of culpability, of blame, equal a “need to blame this woman” … you do you though!
The story in the article, well now articles, is that she travelling with her one child in the car seat, was “cut off” by another car in the car pool lane. Nothing about feeling endangered or being endangered. So at that point the car that cut her off is ahead of her, right? Then cut to she is ahead of them (still both in the car pool lane) and flipping them off in her rear view mirror. Which you believe, in the story you created that is not in the articles, is because she was upset over her child having been endangered. After somehow she got ahead of them and flipped them off in her rear view mirror.
The only scenario I can imagine is that this woman was upset at someone else who also did not beloing in the car pool lane getting in her way, gunned ahead of them, flipped them off as she got ahead of them. Fairly common road rage behavior at when pissed off at someone getting in your way. Not behavior of a mama or dada bear protecting their child. Reckless aggressive behavior that does not deserve what happened but was worse than a parent ignorantly not realizing that the wading pool represented a risk even if the child was only in the yard alone for a very short period of time.
Yeah we are all human and we get pissed driving. And giving into that pissedness with aggressiveness is stupid. Puts yourself at risk. Doing it with kids in the car puts your kids at risk.
Don’t put your kids at needless risk by getting into aggressive pissing contests with random assholes on the road, even if it is just pulling up when possible in stuck traffic to flip them off, let alone working to get ahead of them to do it. Sure it gives some small satisfaction to do it, but breathe in and breathe out and don’t. Some of them are violent crazies. We know that.
The violent crazy is still to blame, should be found and punished, but it may be your kid that dies.
It’s not as big of a risk as the wading pool, not as big as the improperly secured gun, but it is a clear and avoidable risk. The parent who takes that risk IMHO has does have to live with that fact.
You done kenny’ed youself.
Okay, the parent has one quintillionth of the blame, the shooter has 75% of the blame and idiots like you have 24.99999999999999999% for defending psychopathic murderers.
It’s good to have friends in the hole you dug KennyT, real good!
(Can we wish KennyT into the cornfield yet?)
Not in this case. The woman flipped somebody off and somebody called her out for it. By shooting at her.
So according to your argument, the only thing that went wrong here is the innocent child was shot instead of the guilty mother.
Do you see how wrong this is when I spell it out for you?
For the some, the word is “posting”.
It wouldn’t make a difference on the issue of who was to blame.
If somebody flips you off in traffic, you can ignore it. Or you can flip them off right back. Or honk your horn or swear at them. These are all reactions at the same level as the initial action.
But shooting a gun? No, that is not a sane response to somebody flipping you off. If you shoot somebody in a situation like that, the blame is totally on you. It doesn’t matter if you hit the person who flipped you off or somebody else in the car or a pedestrian who was on the sidewalk. And it doesn’t matter if anyone involved was a man or a woman or what their political beliefs are or what they were wearing or who else was in the car with them. None of that matters. If you shoot somebody over some trivial issue like this, you are totally wrong.
Or a dead possum wearing burglar mask, if that’s all you can find.
Those were you words. The words in between were just justifications.
So, you are blaming her, while also saying that you don’t need to blame her? So why are you doing it, you just enjoy blaming parents who have lost a child? That’s kinda weird, man.
Not sure what you’ve been reading, the one in the OP is paywalled, so I read a few different articles. Here’s one:
Most of the rest that I see are either paywalled of say the same thing, sometimes word for word.
So, you just made up a story that is not in the article there in order to create a scenario where you can blame her for someone shooting her child?
She was not ahead of them in the same lane, she was in the exit lane next to them. You insinuate that she was doing something wrong by being in the carpool lane with your “also did not beloing [sic] in the carpool lane” even though the law is to have 2 people or more in your car, which she did.
You have imagined this scenario completely at odds with the facts as they are known in order to be able to blame this woman for someone shooting her child. Why the fuck man?
You have not established that this happened, just done your best to make up stories in order to slander this person, who you don’t even see as a victim.
The rest of your post is just further victim blaming, so I’m not going to respond to it. But you are welcome to keep digging this hole man, it’s pretty disturbing, but I’m morbidly curious as to how far you will go.
Worked for me. It said:
Bolding mine.
Same story in the other article linked to in this thread.
Play it out. You are cut off by another driver. Where is that car now relative to you? Behind you? No. If someone cuts you off you are behind them. Yet after being cut off she flipped them off in her rear view mirror. Established in the other articles you cite as well that she somehow after being cut off got in front of them.
Please explain how that happens. I’ve never been in front of someone after they cut me off. I’ve been angry that I’ve been cut off but they wouldn’t see anything as they are ahead of me. My being in front of them, with them in my rear view mirror, after being cut off would require me making an effort to make that happen … getting into a pissing match to gain some satisfaction. I certainly can understand the desire to get into and win that pissing match, I do.
Maybe there is another way it happens but I am not able to imagine it. If you are, please share. Or don’t.
AGAIN no excuse or justification of the murder. It was a horrible crime, a tragic senseless death, and the family is experiencing a horrible loss. Most of the OP was sexist trolling.
AND this much of the OP
is, in my mind true.
To me that is an obvious thing and I really did think that without the added sexist trolling others here would have seen that as an obvious thing as well. And yes, I do believe that if I as a parent did something irresponsible with my minor kids, and they ended up hurt or dead as a result, then I would have to live with some responsibility for that tragic outcome.
What guilt the parent will shoulder for the rest of their lives and what guilt they deserve to shoulder are two different things.
I carry guilt for every misstep, both utterly accidental and those that were foreseeable, that caused my children any measure of harm. An outside observer would likely consider virtually all of it guilt I should not carry. But such is parenthood.
Maybe because some people assign blame to them in some insane attempt to excuse fucking child murderers.
Rational Thinking: When my kid complained that the preschool teacher was hurting him, I should have followed up instead of telling him to stop making up stories. It’s partly my fault he got abused.
Irrational Thinking: I shouldn’t have gone back to work, and put my child in daycare. It’s my fault he got abused, even if I had no reason to believe he was being abused.
Asshole Thinking: Stupid irresponsible Mom. Working for money instead of being the Perfect SAHM. What a whore!
Part of the reason why the Irrational Thinking occurs is because Asshole Thinking is all too common.
I talked to another father about this once. His opinion, which I agree with is that it’s just impossible to be completely “responsible” 100% of the time. I think every parent has had a close call.
But coming back to this, flipping someone off in a car shouldn’t be something you do, but also it shouldn’t result in getting shot at. I had a cousin flippantly use the “n” word as a joke in place with some rather large black guys, and while everyone agrees he was an idiot for saying that, and fortunate that the closest black guys were pretty cool about just letting him know he was an idiot. Had he been killed, that would not have been on him.
It is explained. After they cut her off she moved over into another lane.
‘She [Aiden’s mother] was merging to the right side to get away from this person, and as you can see if you go online and look at the photos, there’s one bullet shot in the trunk that went through the trunk and right through my nephew,’ Cloonan explained.
So she was cut off in the HOV lane (farthest left). Most likely the driver was going slow, which is generally the case when you get cut off; otherwise they aren’t impeding you. I’ve experienced that myself, as I’m traveling in the HOV lane going a good speed and someone decides to get in front of me and drive well under the speed limit.
So she gets over to the right, out of the HOV lane, in order to go back to her previous speed. Which is a reasonable thing to do. She flips off the car as she passes them on the right, angry that someone forced her out of the lane. Someone in that car shot at her as she drove off, hitting the left trunk, passing through it, into the rear seat and hitting the child in the abdomen, killing him.
Her actions as a driver don’t seem reckless aside from flipping off the person. Nothing indicates her driving was problematic.
Yes that is rational thinking. It takes some responsibility, some of the fault, and in no way excuses the monstrosity of the teacher’s abuse of the child.
Some here would seem to want to say that the parent is the victim in this scenario, that recognizing the fault involved is both blaming the victim (due to some sick need to blame the victim) and excusing and justifying the preschool teacher’s abuse of the child.
I do not see that as a rational thought process.
In her rear view mirror?
FWIW it has been quite a while since I’ve driven in LA and maybe traffic patterns have changed due to COVID but SR-55 is typically heavily congested. At 8 am no one is travelling at a good speed there. It is jockeying for position with drivers fighting for inches. Her and another vehicle, neither with more than two occupants in the car, fighting for position in the HOV lanes does not surprise. I don’t expect the HOV rules are followed so well. But moving along at “a good speed” on SR-55 during morning rush, slowed down by a car cutting in front of you and then quickly passing them on the left by just changing lanes? Sure!
She did not deserve to be shot at. Her child certainly did NOT deserve to die. The shooter should be caught and punished. Maybe they can plead down to murder third degree and claim that they shot at the trunk to scare and with no knowledge of a child in the back seat or that the bullet would go through. But they deserve to be found and punished to the fullest degree of the law, whatever that turns out to be. And even your imagined passing an unknown on the right and giving them the finger is problematic driving, acting out on anger, to me. YMMV.
Okay, you’re officially the biggest fuckwit on these boards right now.
People have pointed you to reports that describe exactly what happened. You insist on creating your own fantasy version.
You couldn’t even resist the temptation to engage in defense lawyering for the killer.
If you were sarcastic to your kid, and they turned around and stabbed you 50 times with a steak knife, your dying thoughts would be, “Me and my smart mouth!”
So it is your position, then, that the man in question would have fired his gun without the provocation from the woman.
I would like to know what grounds you have for believing that.