I was contemplating my navel, and this is what fell out.

Great Debates
1

Subject: Victems and Victemhood.

I was driving home today, and my mind wandered. (Fortunately it came back) Usually when my mind wanders I get a meandering course of thoughts. I’ve tryed to straighten this course of thoughts for you.

There were a bunch of people crossing against the green, and I was thinking about how it would be a good idea if a ran them over to teach them a lesson, but my Spoil sport internal voice prevented me from doing so. Instead I thought about what would have happened had I ran them over.

Undoubtably, there would be protests, poster drawings, “Friends” who had never spoken to the “Road-kill” would be on tv villifying me as someone who took away their dearest friend. Nowhere in the consequences were there be any thought that the victem may have been doing something wrong (like jay walking).

It seems like if you can portray someone as a “victim”, that person is now free from any wrong doing accusations. Whenever there is a police shooting, (ie cop shoots a scum bag) there is a corner’s (sorry I know I cannot spell) inquiry. Usually the corner suggests that the police use non lethal deterants like pepper spray etc. That has alway annoyed me. Even in the most clear cut cop shootings, the coroner will reccommend that the police use pepper spray, tazers, etc. Why can’t they just once come out and say: “You know, if people didn’t threaten cops they wouldn’t get shot” or “If you try to stab a cop you will get shot, so it’s a good idea for Joe Q Public (why joe Q, not joe P?) not to stab cops”, or shorter and to the point “It’s not nice to kill cops”.

If someone gets beat up, stole from, etc, and you suggest that they avoid dark alleys, lock your stuff up, etc, you are quickly told that it’s not the victim’s fault, and that you are blaming the victem for his/her victimhood. Now I agree that there are some times when the victim is completely blameless (nothing you can do about a cat burgaler/professional burgaler, daylight robbery (someplace where you wouldn’t expect these crimes to occur)), but other times, the victim is partially to blame (gee whiz, you know, going into a rough part of town in the middle of the night is a bad idea, who knew you would get mugged?). But that last statement is not politically correct.

Why are we not allowed to even entertain the possiblity that the victim may have caused his/her problems? It seems like the logical thing to do.

I’m afraid the only conclusion I was able to reach was that our current society is screwed up, and if I were king emperor of the world things might be marginally better.

I’m not sure where to put this though, it’s not GQ, nor BBQ (no swearing), but it might be MYSIMPS, IMHO, or GD. I don’t think it’s mundane, so it’s not MYSIMPS, it’s an opinion question, but I don’t think it belongs in IMHO. So that’s why it’s in GD. I’m sure someone will move it if it doesn’t belong.

Comments are solicited.

Sorry about the lenght.

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration (<<my default ending for any communication, it pays to be polite you see)

2

I find myself put in mind of the poor fellow in NYC who was shot some thirty-odd times in the lobby of his own apartment building. His crime? He was black and a non-native English speaker who, when faced with a group of cops pointing guns and yelling at him, got out his wallet so he could provide identification. He actually had the wallet in his hand when the body was picked up.

Cops shooting a guy literally dozens of times

because he was pointing a loaded wallet at them.

Cops who can’t tell the difference between a gun and a wallet.

Shot a guy dozens of times.

I think the British have the right idea

3

That’s unfortunate, but that doesn’t really apply to my cop example, I was thinking some guy trys to stab a cop somewhere.

BTW in the heat of the moment it;s hard for the cops to tell if it is a wallet or a gun, especially the reaching motion. If the cops were pointing guns, it’s obvious that they thought their lives were threatened from the get go.

What I’m skirting around here (Time for a public service announcement: THIS GUY DIDN’T DESERVE TO DIE) is that we bear some responsibility for our actions. When we are pulled over we are not to get out of our car, because this is interprited as a aggressive action by the police AFAIK INA cop. And if it’s dark . . . How can they know?

How could the cops have known that it wasn’t a gun he was pulling out (He could have been some crazy SOB) I don’t know the exact situation, so I will not comment further on that.

But we all know that it is our civic responsiblity to do exactly what a cop says. The cop says down on the ground, you get DOWN ON THE GROUND. No if’s ands or buts.

4

So somewhere among the vague meanderings of your mind, you happened upon this supreme act of justice:

“Doing something wrong,” e.g. jaywalking —> death sentence.

And what punishment should fit **your **crime of deliberately running people over?

5

The Brits have lots of great ideas. I’ll assume you mean unarmed law enforcement.

The incident in question was a tragedy that many police departments learned from. Most gun training involves emptying the clip once it is fired. During a situation that is deemed threatening it becomes an autonomic response. This behavior needs to be addressed in the training process.

I’m a big proponent of tasers and similar non-lethal weapons for police but I would not disarm law enforcement in the US. There are simply too many guns in the possession of criminals.

To address the subject, I agree that people are often responsible for what happens to them. Nobody would accuse me of looking like a threat to an officer. However, I know you don’t make sudden moves if you are pulled over or otherwise detained. If I get pulled over in my car I shut the engine off, put the keys on the dash, roll down the window, put both hands on the wheel, and have my license out of my wallet BEFORE the officer gets to my car. If it’s at night I turn the dome light on.

6

That was meant to be somewhat humourous (lame I know), I don’t think people should be run over for jaywalking. People could be run over for jaywalking. Jaywalking is dangerous (potentially, I could have run them over had the circumstances been different) , this was just a little residential street, but icing etc can make a world of differnce in stopping ability. The running them over bit was leading into the next comment where I thought “what if”.

What if the road conditons were poor and I hit one of them? What would have happened then? There would be road safety lectures, poster drawings, protests, and the human interest story that always seems to show up on slow news days.

Ultimately this wasn’t about killing people, crashing into traffic violators etc. It was about paying attention to your actions, about what could have happened.

Besides, if you kill them they won;t learn anything. (<<that was humour)

BTW, I wouldn’t want to be the cop who has to stare down an armed criminal, I’m not sure how they get away with it in Britain, but I highly doubt it would work in the US or Canada.

7

Short smart ass response: Life ain’t fair. Deal with it.

Longer response: Don’t assume all people will live responsibly, act honestly nor think clearly all the time. Too many variables. Besides, there are many who wear the white hats and ride the white horses who are also scum.

Case in point -

"She was 71 years old. She was blind. She needed her 94-year-old mother to come to her rescue.

"And in the middle of the dogfight – in which Eunice Crowder was pepper-sprayed, Tasered and knocked to the ground by Portland’s courageous men in blue – the poor woman’s fake right eye popped out of its socket and was bouncing around in the dirt.

“How vicious and ugly can the Portland police get? Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner. This 2003 case is so blatant, the use of force so excessive, the threat of liability so intimidating that the city just approved a $145,000 settlement.”

Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf?/base/news/1082807738251705.xml

In this case, we are the victims. The Portland Police still haven’t learned, except to refine their excuses.