I’ve been on record for quite some time as believing that Tim Tebow is a nice kid, a great role model, and a wonderful college quarterback who just doesn’t have the tools to be a successful NFL quarterback.
Nonetheless, a few weeks ago, when the Broncos made Tebow the starter, I figured there was no harm in letting him play. I figured either he’d play very well, win a few games and silence the critics… or (more likely) he’d play horribly, lose a bunch of games and silence his passionate fans. At that point, John Elway and John Fox could tell the fans, “We gave Tebow a try, you all saw that he couldn’t get the job done, and now I think we can all agree it’s time to draft and groom a REAL quarterback.”
But instead, Tim Tebow has done the worst thing possible, from Fox and Elway’s perspective: he’s been a terrible quarterback by ANY traditional standard, but he’s won most of the games he’s started!
For the Broncos, what could be worse than that? Tebow has PROVEN that his detractors were right, and that he’s never likely to succeed as an NFL quarterback. But because the Broncos keep winning, his worshipful fans aren’t getting the message. As far as they can see, Tim is winning, and isn’t that what it’s all about?
I know. I’m like clones in a love seat. (I’m beside myself.)
He is the WORST throwing QB I’ve ever seen in the NFL. And he didn’t really rush up a storm, either, tho he did rush for more than most NFL QBs do.
But, I was just freaking out trying to figure out how he won. 8 pass attempts. 1 long one for TD. (Cool). Rushed for a TD, and somehow managed to look weak and stupid even doing that. Did he sell his soul (or cleats) to Mitt Romney or something? I don’t get it. But, for now, I’ll shut up since he’s putting up.
And, despite all my laments in past weeks… GO BRONCOS
In baseball, there’s an increasing demand from a vocal minority to completely do away with the Win as a stat for pitchers. It’s semi-arbitrary, is relative to how well your defense and offense perform, and the pitcher is the only player that receives credit for a Win. Those who defend not only using Wins, but using Wins as a primary metric for evaluating pitchers, seem to do so out of blind ignorance.
It would also seem that they are concentrated strongly in the greater Denver metropolitan area, and have redirected their enthusiasm for a terrible statistic to football, and the QB in particular.
You make a good point. The problem with stats is that know-nothings concentrate on one or two stats while ignoring others. Stats are great as long as they are examined in the context of other stats. A pitcher with a low win percentage that plays for a crappy team yet has a low ERA and high number of strikeouts and gives up few home runs . . . hey, I want him pitching for me.
Picking out one stat and making a case for a player’s ability is idiotic.
I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s not like Denver is going to be picking in the top 5 or even top 10. So there probably isn’t going to be a franchise type guy available. There’s nothing wrong with filling other holes, giving Tebow one more year, and then addressing the QB spot the following season.
Tebow doesn’t have much going for him, but one really good thing about him is that he isn’t throwing picks. You can win a lot of games with defense, ball control, and low turnovers.
Is this the thread where we find a way to hammer Tim Tebow in spite of the fact that his team is winning, something they were not doing while a “much better” quarterback was playing?
See, here’s the thing: it doesn’t matter how you win, only that you win. There are no style points. Tebow has demonstrated that he can win games. When he no longer does, put him on the bench.
If I were a Broncos fan, I’d ride that gravy train as absolutely long as I could with no regrets. Hell, I rooted for Kordell Stewart, another super-talented guy who was good at any position except for quarterback. But he won, and when he didn’t win anymore they gave him the boot. At some point you have to tell yourself that Tim Tebow’s success needs only be measured in the win column. Not even John Elway could get more than one win a week, so in that respect Tebow is getting the job done.
And here’s where we get to an up-close view of the bullshit argument in its natural habitat. Notice how it completely ignores the other 21 teammates also on the field of play and only credits one of them with the stat. Look at how he’s only capable of focusing on the QB, and not the other 7 guys that also ran the ball tonight. Hell, the best comparable performance you could make between Tebow and someone else would be Matt Forte, who threw the ball only 7 times less but ran the ball for 23 more yards.
No, it doesn’t ignore the other 21 players. But here’s a fact: of all the players on a football team, the one that can kill your chances of winning most easily is the quarterback. Interceptions, fumbles, incomplete passes, unnecessary sacks, bad handoffs… look at the Colts, for God’s sake. Not a win this year, and what’s the difference? Peyton Manning vs. Curtis Painter. The Saints couldn’t win a rigged lottery until they got Drew Brees. The Patriots have had little to no running game and at-best average defense for a long time, yet they consistently lead the division on the strength of Tom Brady.
But in Tebow’s case it doesn’t matter. Wins suddenly don’t matter. You guys are looking for any justification to skewer the guy, and I’m not going to be a part of it.
I like Tebow, I think he’s a sincere, good kid who walks the walk. I don’t look for reasons to “skewer” him, and have defended him on more than one occasion here and elsewhere.
But your argument is still complete and utter bullshit. Yes, the QB is the most important player on the team. But you must be completely blind, football stupid, or a Steeler fan, to think that the only measure of a QB is wins. It simply ignores the reality of NFL football. Dilfer isn’t a better QB than Marino. Sanchez isn’t a better QB than Phillip Rivers. And boiling the entirety of what makes a QB good to “did they win” is just plain stupid.
OK, so what metric should we use? He was outperformed by Orton statistically, yet Orton is riding the pine. Should he still be starting? After all, wins don’t matter.
Yes, Orton should still be starting from any rational assessment of what gives your team the best chance to win. Unfortunately, management in Denver is both terrible as well as subject to the howls of public outcry, and cannot make an entirely rational argument of what improves chances of winning, but rather can do so of what improves the chances of better concession sales.
And let’s keep some perspective. Tim Tebow plays for the #3 team in the AFC West, and has beaten the Dolphins, the Raiders and the Chiefs. If you insist on sticking with Wins, can you at least put some importance on who those wins were against?
In the last 2 years, the Broncos are 4-14 in games not started by Tebow. They are a terrible team in every facet of the game without Tebow. They have no receivers. They have an abysmal defense.
I’m not exaggerating: they literally had the worst defense in the NFL last season and are horrible again this year.
Somehow, someway, they have a winning record when Tebow starts. Their incredible ineptitude when Tebow doesn’t start can’t be waved away. It doesn’t make Tebow a good quarterback. What it tells us is that there are things you can get from the quarterback position that look absolutely nothing like what you expect to get from the quarterback position, but can give you a better chance to win.
I don’t know if this means Tebow should start, but I do think they have a better chance to win right now with Tebow over Orton.
Let’s see what those games look like. If the Broncos win with Tebow at the helm, I’ll have to admit that something is working. For the life of me, tho, I can’t see how.
And if they do win, it’s not all about him, same as losing isn’t all the QB’s fault. But, I think we can’t ignore that the QB position is perhaps the most important in the NFL of today. I would really like to read some football expert’s take on what’s happening, and not all the regular idiot fan wank (pos and neg). Let’s face it, no matter how vocal our opinions are here, it’s still just an opinion. And sometimes not very well informed, either.
Honestly, the key is that Tebow isn’t passing. The Broncos have no receivers, which means that when Orton had the ball, he tried to play to his strengths, such as they were. And that meant a lot of incomplete passes and interceptions.
With Tebow at the helm, they know they can’t spend plays on passes, so they run it. And that’s working reasonably well right now. Can it last? I doubt it, but it’s possible. Conventional wisdom is that running QBs don’t win championships in the NFL, and the Broncos aren’t poised to change that wisdom.
All of this doesn’t make Tebow a good QB by any meaningful measure. What it does make him is good enough.
And sometimes good enough is good enough. I’m agnostic in the Tebow matter, but ultimately, if the team wins with him at QB, the coach would be an idiot to use another QB.
Is it due to talent or just luck? Doesn’t matter. He’s winning right now, so you stick with him until his flaws start dragging down the team.
Winning isn’t the only thing in the NFL. Building a future winning also plays a role. Playing Timmy now does nothing for that. Gimmicks can be successful short term, such as the Wildcat, but NFL teams are unbelievably good at adjusting. Timmy might be involved in a couple more wins, but the clock is running. Look at what’s happened to Vick over the last 12 or so games. And Vick has much more natural QB ability.
Of course, starting Timmy sells tickets. But the person who may be worst served by it it’s Tebow himself, as it reduces the likelihood he can have an NFL career set a different position where his undeniable talent could be better used.
Ironically, when the Broncos played the Packers earlier this season, the Packers couldn’t cover Brandon Lloyd for love or money (note that this is actually a recurring theme for the Packer defense this year…every week, there’s a receiver who can just get open at will). Lloyd had 8 catches for 136 yards.
What did the Broncos do about this? They traded Lloyd to the Rams a week and a half later.
