As for the OP, I agree with those who say that you did everything you could.
Even under ideal conditions (like when someone has a cardiac arrest in the hospital and physicians can respond immediately with appropriate equipment), the vast majority of people do not survive cardiac arrest - and the situation you were in was clearly far, far from ideal.
As one ER doc I worked with put it, bringing someone back from cardiac arrest is really more like “raising the dead” than treating a sick person. There are rare cases when we manage to cheat death and bring them back, so that’s why it’s worth knowing CPR (because you never know if one day you might encounter the situation where it does make the difference, and saving one life is worth it). However, most of the time, you can do everything right and it still won’t be enough to save someone who is that far gone.
I agree that it was not constructive for the nurses to scold his wife for not taking him to the mainland. However, for the sake of anyone out there reading this, I do want to put out that chest pain with arm numbness/tingling is a serious warning sign for cardiac problems, and please do take it seriously if that happens to you. It is classic that people will think that chest pain from heart disease is “indigestion” and then will be found dead with some tums in their hand.
In this case, maybe they were in denial, maybe the man was trying to downplay the symptoms because he didn’t want to ruin the vacation, etc. Regardless, you did the right thing by responding quickly and trying to help. Hopefully his wife can take some comfort in knowing that you did what you could for him.
Couldn’t agree more. Many people die while treading water in the River Denial.
My parents went for a Scandinavian vacation. Dad was more and more winded- and he was morbidly obese always. More and more tired. Less time vacationing, more time napping on the bus. Mom- an RN !!- figured the sudden surge of activity was just really wearing him down. Attentive as she always was, she didn’t see this coming.
Finally, the evening before they leave for a cruise up the fjords, he was looking badly. Off he went in Copenhagen to the hospital. Severe congestive heart failure. He’d likely have died on the cruise. As it was, it took days to “dry him out” and get him fit to fly back to the States for heart surgery.
This, from his 50 year old son who doesn’t even have a G.P. doctor. :smack:
Unfortunately this is all too true; the stats listed on this page are scary to think about, like this one:
So you or I could just drop dead right now :eek:
(note - SCA (sudden cardiac arrest) is NOT a “heart attack”, in the most commonly used sense, a blockage in an artery, but it is how heart attacks usually kill)
Sorry if I appeared to abandon this thread. We were without wi-fi for the rest of our trip, and only got home late last night.
Thanks for all the words of support. I was able to put this event aside and enjoy the rest of my vacation. For those interested, Belize is a beautiful country and I highly recommend it.
Now that I’m back to the “real world”, with a little time and distance to put things in perspective, I can see that this man was probably going to die. Either he had symptoms and chose not to act, or he indulged in risky behavior, or he had an unknown condition… I’ll never know. What I do know is that we did what we could. I have no guilt for trying, and would do it again, even knowing the likely result.
Part of what still gets to me is that “not knowing” part. How is HW doing? What actually killed M? I’m the sort of person who craves answers, and mysteries like that drive me batty But my curiosity is no reason to try and reach a grieving family.
I’m going to take this as a life lesson. I now know that CPR isn’t always successful - but you should always try. I’m going to talk my local CPR trainer to see if something like this could, or should, be included in the training. I think I would have benefited from that knowledge. I’m also going to talk to my friends and family about my experience. If it prompts them into taking symptoms seriously, or getting training, or even just buying a first-aid kit for their car, it’s done some good.
Two things from that night will never leave me: the sight of M’s grey face when I first walked in the room, and the sound HW made when the doctor stopped CPR. But I refuse to let those things haunt me. Life must go on.
Make up an ending. It isn’t real closure, but it might help. HW flies back to the mainland, is comforted by her loving grown son, reunites with her high school sweetheart in a year or two and lives happily ever after.
I think you’re right, it helps to know. In our last CPR refresher class, at our office, we were told that the survival rate for CPR alone is 4%, but if you can add an automated defibrillator the odds go up to nearly 40%. Those numbers could, in addition, not be including all the folks who weren’t having heart attacks.
Still, even with a 4% it has to be tried, and you stepped up and did what needed to be done. Props.
Yrs ago, I was in a bar late at night. Struck up a convo with the guy to the right of me (at the bar) and later, we both had convo with the guy at the left of me. Neither of us had met prior, but all from the same town as the bar.
closing time, we all depart. first guy leaves on his harley; second guy leave next, followed by me. Harley crosses 4 lane divided hiway, then enters a sharp S-curve 1/4 mile up. For whatever reason, he turns around and starts back the other way. Guy # 2 in Chevy truck, now crosses the 4 lane hiway, and is entering the sharp S curve. I am behind me a few hundred feet. #2 in truck, enters the S-curve, far left of center. At 3 am, no one would expect oncoming traffic on this side road. But there suddenly appears the #1 Harley.
Head on collision. I get out, as does #2, but #1 is mangled badly, bleeding all over, making gurgling sounds, exposed bones, wrapped in Harley & Truck grill. Nothing to do but watch him die.
What made it significant, was the 3 of us just met, just prior. Now #1 is dead, killed by #2, and #3 witnessed it, otherwide #2 could have driven off (hit and run).
Incredible impact on each others lives (no pun intended). # 2 got 10 yrs for Inv Mnsltr & DUI.
As much as I have nightmares to this day, I can only imagine what #2’s nightmares are like.
I think people have a distorted perception of CPR from TV and movies. CPR isn’t going to get the heart attack victim to wake up and gasp thanks.
CPR keeps someone alive long enough to get to medical care. Sometimes they can be brought back once they’re in a hospital, but often they can’t. Giving someone CPR, though, gives them a chance. And that’s a hell of a lot better than nothing.
Thanks to those in this thread who performed CPR when it was needed.
Take a CPR class. If someone has a heart attack and no one around knows CPR, that person will probably die.
Use the AED even if you don’t know how. The AED is an Automated External Defibrillator. It’s designed to be used by someone without any training. It has voice commands to tell you what to do. They are typically found in gyms, churches, schools, malls, and other places where there are large amounts of people. Even if you don’t know CPR, use the AED.
When I took a CPR class, the paramedic teaching it said:
Most times when they arrive at a scene, everyone is standing around the victim not doing anything (other than crying/screaming).
Most people don’t want to use the AED because they think they are just for people who have been trained on it.
Even if you haven’t been trained in CPR, likely you’ve seen it done enough times on TV that you could do it well enough to provide some benefit. You may keep the victim alive long enough for help to arrive.
However, for the sake of anyone out there reading this, I do want to put out that chest pain with arm numbness/tingling is a serious warning sign for cardiac problems, and please do take it seriously if that happens to you. It is classic that people will think that chest pain from heart disease is “indigestion” and then will be found dead with some tums in their hand. 
But my curiosity is no reason to try and reach a grieving family.