Quicksilver, I don’t think anyone here is saying that a size 10 is the default/normal size! And I have not said that 0/2 is malnourished or anorexic (except I know for me, it would be, I’m just not built that way).
But I am saying that 10 can be a normal size, and these commercials can make vulnerable people feel like they are not OK, when they really are.
I used to be a size 5 at 5’5". And it looked pretty damn bad. I actually looked healthier than some of the skinny models you see now. I had a little bit of muscle tone, a little bit of boobage, but still, it looked pretty damn bad. I see pictures from back then, and instead of thinking I looked nice and slim. I think “Damn, my head is HUGE!”
I am 5’3" tall, with very small bones. Once, when I was very ill, I lost so much weight that I weighed 72 pounds. I was a walking skeleton. Yet people who knew me kept telling me how marvelous I looked, as if being grotesquely thin was a good thing.
I now weigh 115 pounds. I am a size ten. I have curves where women are supposed to have curves. I may not look as marvelously emaciated as I used to, but I am happy with what I am. Less of me doesn’t necessarily make me better.
Size does depend on so much more than weight, I’ve seen flabby size eights and toned, athletic size twelves.
But still… my skeleton couldn’t wear a size 4.
Nothing at Layne Bryant will fit me (except shoes and socks). It’s all too big! I have the coveted .7* waist/hip ratio, too! My BMI defines me as obese ( I think it’s being 5’2" with ginormous breasts).
What’s the world coming to when an obese person is not fat enough to shop at Layne Bryant? :eek:
Sizes are f*cked up. So is the concept of what constitutes healthy.
I am 5’1" with very small bones, and at 113, I was a “fat” 2 (probably should have been in a Jr. 3). I have curves where women are supposed to as well. There is no way in hell any interpretation of a 10 would ever fit me. I just don’t see the disparity between sizes that you people are describing here.
I have heard that more expensive clothes are sized more “flatteringly,” so that my size-10 frame (in Dollar General Bargain Center clothes) might fit into a size 2 in a designer thingie from Saks Fifth Avenue. I’m not very likely ever to know whether this is true or not, since I can’t afford fancy duds, and am not very interested in 'em even if I could afford 'em.
Ok, so I see what the OP is trying to say now. Originally, I took it as a rant that no realistic, healthy women wear a size four (and so, of course, non-anorectic size 4 Doper women chimed in to correct this). But I guess what you’re really trying to say is that the way the ad is worded unfairly makes a size 10 sound like a cow.
I dunno, the ad doesn’t say that to me. I think the sizes are just an example. (although a meaningless one, you could go from a size 10 to a 4 just by changing brands)
I am 5’9", 118 pounds, size two. I wear size five in juniors, sometimes three. I also wear size 14 in kids’ clothing. I am NOT emaciated. I watch what I eat very, very carefully and work out. I look nice and I work hard to look nice. I admit that I have been anorexic, but not lately. Remember, one man’s emaciated is another’s attractive.
I am not gonna say that there isn’t somebody, somewhere, who has lost an amazing amount of weight.
But in high school I knew a girl who went off to become a model. She was skinny enough but not really tall enough, but she did get at least one modeling job. I know because I saw the ad.
It was in a magazine like Redbook and it was for some diet aid, I don’t know. First there was a picture of a blowsy, kind of out-of-focus fat woman. Then there was Janet, same size as always, wearing huge pants and holding the waistband out.
What was really amazing was, they used her real name! And there was this story-- a complete fiction, about how her weight started ballooning when she hit her teens (bullshit–she was a cheerleader), and then she got married and gained even more, blah blah blah (more bullshit, according to mutual friends she was still single), and then she discovered NutriPurge, or whatever, and eight months later she was down to a size 6!
She was always a size six!
I have not believed one of those ads since (well, some of them are more believable than others).
I kept hoping to run into her and give her a bad time about her poor horrible fat-laden adolescence – or congratulate her on the fabulous success of her modeling career (that would have been mean, wouldn’t it) but I never did. (Run into her, that is. Probably just as well.)
Oh, and on a further note, I just went from a size 10 to a size 6 in ten minutes! Right there in my own closet! Trying on three different pairs of Lee jeans.
Size 10–bought maybe 5-6 years ago.
Size 8–bought somewhat more recently.
Size 6–bought last summer. (Relaxed fit.)
The really amazing thing is that the 10 is by far the smallest of these. Well they do shrink in the wash, I guess.
(BTW I love the phrase “relaxed fit.” I think I am going to go have one.)
My considered opinion? For the average-height American woman, a size ten is Grrreat! A size four? Only if she’s shorter- and/or smaller-boned-than average. (Hell, I’m 5’8" and shrinking, and wore a tight size 6 when I was dealing with an illness and weighed a whopping 93 pounds. Size four won’t happen unless I have hipbones removed.)
Having demonstrated my understanding of the OP, though, let me join the hijack with this carefully researched opinion: The majority of women’s clothing manufacturers’ sizing departments are operated by mentally retarded crack-addicted monkeys. I’ve recently lost a fair amount of weight myself (having rebounded from 93 pounds to considerably larger, and now having stabilized at a healthy and comfortable size 10-ish. More about the “ish” follows.) Thus, I need a frock or two and maybe a pair of jeans that fit my current size. Logically, I go try on clothes. Grab two or three sizes, since I’m not really sure what size I am, except to know that I wear a misses size, vs. juniors. (For those not in the know, juniors’ = odd-numbered sizes, cut for more “boyish” figures; misses’ = even-numbered sizes, cut for us curvier gals.) The first brand I tried was Liz Claiborne. The size tens were laughably large. Size 8? Couldn’t pull them up past my thighs. However, I wear a size 6 tall in LC slacks. And a size 8 LC skirt. 
Gap jeans? Size 10 tall, classic fit. Dockers? Size 12. And RunAmok, she is confused again.
(Don’t get me started on bra sizing, either! The first thing you’re supposed to do to find your bra size? Measure yourself while wearing a good-fitting bra!)
(PS: My evil plan is to corner the market on parentheses, drive up the prices, and retire to Bimini on the proceeds. 
)
It does depend on your bone structure or muscle mass what size works for you.
For instance, I have a heavy bone stucture, and a job where I’m lifting 30-100 lbs per day. Plus I bike to and from work, so I have a lot of muscle mass. I’m 5’3 and 200lbs, so by the BMI chart I’m considered “obese” (funny, 'cause fat can’t push 240lbs on the leg press, but I digress…). But I have an hourglass figure, and currently wear a size 18-19. A few years ago I had gallstones and was very ill for about 4 months. During this time I could hardly eat anything and lost an alarming amount of weight. I was literally emaciated, I could count all my ribs and my hips jutted out. Even though I was underweight at that time, I could never fit in a size below 10, because that’s obviously the smallest that my bone structure could accomodate. So everyone is different.
You are all missing the point.
The entire campaign is mental, as in constant bombardment.
Whatever size you are, regardless of how happy you are, how healthy you are and if you are in a loving and supportive relationship you are simply too fat, you bloated, bloated cow and will never be as popular as that skinny prom queen who was anoxeric and a basic nutjob.
This same message is quietly beamed into our living rooms with the While you were out and other House fixeruper programs. Whatever you live in, and are comfortable with is not good enough and you are pathetic. you hoser.
Those reality dating shows, I think, otoh, actually reaffirm relationships. Why else would anyone subject themselves to watching weeks of “What Dumbass will She/he pick this week ?”. It makes you glad you married whomever you did.
Survivor is pure fantasy for everyone in Cubicalville. Wouldn’t it be loverly if we could vote off-island whomever is the most petulant, non-productive member of our watercooler tribe? It is truly a mental masterbatory moment for every one of us who has had to work with dingleberries.
And the pharmacuetical industry just preys on your brain or your bladder by imprinting messages that you are ADD, mental health issues or have to pee constantly. That’s when you are not on a fully scale alert for toe fungus or herpes to attack you.
Men are finally getting subjected to this kind of mental attack hoozah!, outside of Scantily Clad Blonde Wimmen selling Shite Beer Drink Shite because we have big knockers! You’ll get laid more! if they don’t have erectile dysfunction then they can’t take Viagara or Cialis and then they can’t throw the football through the hole like Mike Ditka. Then they can’t go blind. If women can have boob jobs that eventually leak or explode, the least the men can do is go blind for their fragile self esteems.
The basic underlying message is If you are happy about your health, body, life * there is something seriously wrong with you and here is the pill/boob job/new house/shoes you need.* all at 0% financing.
The clothing, dieting,cosmetics, insurance/medico,shoe industry hates you.
This is the memo you should have gotten a long time ago.
“Relaxed Fit” can also be applied for anyone who has had a vaginal birth.
Fair enough.
Yes, 10 can be a normal size for some people. It can also be very overweight for others. A commercial’s demographic is simply that. It’s aimed at people who need/want to lose weight, grow hair, drive a faster car, fly a better airline, whatever…
There are people who are vulnerable to all kinds of suggestions (ex. John Edward, Rev. Falwell, etc.) It would be nice to reach out to each and every one of them and say, “Not you though! We think you’re just fine the way you are.”, because one size 10 is not the same as another size 10. Unfortunately, we can’t legislate against vulnerability any more than we can against a lot of undesireable human traits.
In high school and college, I weighed around 130 and wore a size 10. Fast forward 30 years - still 5’4, gained tons of weight but it’s spread around pretty evenly, so I’m good to go. BTW, even if I lost 20 lbs., my clothes size would not change. It’s weird, maybe just has to do with where the weight comes off, but I can’t imagine going down 2 or 3 sizes without massive weight loss, and that’s something that just doesn’t interest me. My cholesterol is good, my blood pressure is good, my last stress test was good. If I didn’t have this blasted hip problem, I’d be out hiking everyday.
Things just aren’t gonna change in advertising. They may make a few strides here and there, but starting with pre-teen girls and going up to women in their 70s, we are taught to believe that thin is in.
“The clothing/diet, etc. industry hates me”. Yipee!
I know what you’re talking about Heart. I feel the same way about that ad for the Ab Lounge. That part where she says, “Now my fat jeans don’t really fit any more.”
Fat jeans? FAT JEANS?!?!?!? She was thin as a rail and she had maybe an inch, inch and a half of excess room in those pants. It makes me want to punch her in the face.
If she’d said, “Now my jeans fit better!” or something like that, it wouldn’t have bothered me. But to suggest that someone so small is FAT if they have so much as ONE INCH of extra flesh? That burns me up. :mad:
Yah, und? Diss iz all relative.
I see the size differences all the time. I went shopping for jean shorts this weekend and ended up buying three pair in different brands–a Levi’s size 6, a (I’ve forgotten the brand) size 8 and a Steve & Barry’s size 10. The 10s were low-rise capris and I had to get the 10 just to fit my womanly child-bearing hips. I’m no stick-figure.
I’m 5’2" and 125 lbs. About a year ago, I was 104 pounds and was a size 2 or 4 (depending on brand, but I’m sure the size 2 was “vanity-sizing”). I looked sickly and my hipbones were jutting out. I wasn’t fit either, so that made me look worse.
Right now, I’ve got a little pudge (love handles and a bit extra meat on the thighs) and wouldn’t mind losing about 8 pounds, but I’m not going to sweat it. I look good in clothes…if not out of them.