So technically Lazlo’s outing of the trick in this thread
Man plays the piano with his balls!
was not allowable?
Explaining how a magic trick is done to the general public is an expellable offence in the Magic Circle (the UK’s society of professional magicians).
I strongly agree with the OP. I don’t see that there is any reason, legally or ethically, not to permit discussion of how magic tricks are performed. Not only is this decision is a stark reversal of previous policy (as it flies in the face of previous threads discussing exactly this, as well as columns by Cecil), but it singles out one particular profession as worthy of special treatment.
With all due respect, TubaDiva, I feel that your last paragraph only confuses the issue. Copyrights are clearly defined and legally protected; the “rights of others…to be compensated for their work” are not, and for good reason–such “rights” are nebulous in the extreme, as other posters have demonstrated.
Finally, I fail to see how any magicians’ livelihood would be threatened by revealing how magic tricks are done, anyway. Simply knowing how a trick is done is a far cry from actually performing the trick. Even when a person knows how a trick is performed, it is still enjoyable watching how a given magician actually conducts the trick.
Then I would suggest that any Dopers who are also members of the Magic Circle kindly refrain from such explanations. :rolleyes:
Hey, we better ban explaining how certain surgeries are done. Doctors that perform surgeries livelihoods depend on that income, and it would be extremely unethical to have every know how to perform a heart transplant.
I’m sure you’re right, but that’s completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
The Magic Circle is, as you say, a society specifically dedicated to the art of professional magic, and presumably to preserving the secrets of professional magicians. I couldn’t find any condition on their website, but i assume that the rule about revealing magic tricks to the public is made clear to members and prospective members, and that members agree to the conditions of membership before joining.
We, however, as members of the general public, and of this message board, have made no such undertaking. We have no professional or legal obligation to magicians to keep their secrets. I don’t think we even have any sort of moral or ethical obligation to do so. After all, as others have pointed out, you could apply the same logic to someone who chooses to learn how to renovate their own home, rather than paying a professional to do the job.
Furthermore, the argument that this will drive magicians out of business is just silly. Firstly, some people don’t even want to know how the tricks are performed, and those people can stay away from threads and conversations where such things are discussed. Second, even if someone does know how a trick is done, this does not necessarily mean that the peson would then avoid watching a magician. In fact, i can see myself being more interested once i knew the trick, because i would then watch the magician closely to see how adept s/he was as performing it.
The SDMB admin has made decisions that i disagreed with in the past, but i always respected them and the concerns that impelled them. This decision i neither agree with nor respect. It’s just fucking dumb.
As yojimbo pointed out in the other thread, the SDMB has so far shown no evidence to support its stand “other than the opinion of interested parties.”
I’ve been doing magic since I was a wee lad and I learned everything I know from books. I mostly agree with the OP…everyone knows that magic is just illusion (except for the Miss Cleo camp, but that’s something else entirely) and there are no legal tangles we would face on the board by writing descriptions of how tricks are done. BUT…
…doing so shows no class. To discuss how magic is done in public goes against the grain. So its really a matter of how the people running this message board want the place to be percieved. Does it matter if all the magicians of the world think badly of us for allowing these kinds of discussions to go on? That’s the real issue, its not a legal or ethical thing.
I disagree with this. As long as people know that it’s being discussed, so they can avoid the conversation if they wish, “class” doesn’t really factor into it, in my book.
No. No it doesn’t.
Big honkin’ word. The decision totally distrubs both as an indication of the direction the board is taking and as a overall indicator of the increasing restrictions of the public’s right to know by commercial and other interests through intimidation. Copyrights extended indefinitely? Public documents considered “classfied” indefinitely? (when I first typed this posted, stupid hamsters, I had a rather long, tedious, and political rant in here, I’ll refrain from reranting) Bleh. I’m gonna go renew my ACLU membership right now…
Yeah, I guess the people running the board want the respect of a few professional magicians who unethically and perhaps illegally (knowing misattributing sometihng in the public domain as being covered by copyright for your own benefit is a federal offense, although one not yet prosecuted to the best of my knowledge) try to bully other people to protect their secrets for them or whether the Straight Dope wants the respect of everyone who appreciates intellectual discussion on a variety of topics.
TubaDiva, IMNSHO, has mafe a very poor decision on this, one which, in fact, is a slap to the face of Cecil himself who has been known to give away magic secrets in his columns. There’s no blame in admitting a mistake and changing your mind, which I hope she does soon for the sake of the credibility of the boards, if nothing else.
Agreed … but only if you switch it round …
“So its really a matter of how the people running this message board want the place to be percieved. Does it matter if all the non-magicians of the world think badly of us for allowing these kinds of discussions to go on? That’s the real issue, its not a legal or ethical thing.”
No more computer questions on the SDMB. By helping someone through their computer problen is actually taking money right out of a call center’s hands. Especially if you are using the same steps that Dell would use to fix the problem. :rolleyes:
I know how a lot of tricks are done. The ones i don’t, I can look up easily enough…and for free. Will that stop me frm seeing a magician? No. A magician with flair can don the most basic tricks and still entertain. The trick is the payoff but it is up to the magician to actually set the stage.
I, too, think Tuba is off-base on this one. Sufficient legal authority has been quoted here, and I’m not sure what I could add to that.
FWIW, I agree. While I understand the staff’s concerns about being sued, and while no one can guarantee that a baseless lawsuit won’t be filed, I think the legal authorities quoted so far are convincing.
If the threat of a baseless lawsuit from a pressure group can cause the SDMB to ban a category of questions, then where does it end?
If we start worrying about baseless lawsuits, we’d better pack it in and shut the whole damned thing down. Anyone can sue anyone else over anything in the US, where the SDMB is physically based. It’s up to the judge to throw out the worst of the moronic cases, but some real doozies have made it to trial proper.
Lawsuits are like lighning: You can refrain from standing in a bucket of salt water with a copper pole on your head during a thunderstorm, but that’s no guarantee you’re completely safe.
I think the teeming thousands do a pretty good job on censoring themselves when it comes to inapprpriate topics. I seem to recall a “let’s give away fraternity/sorority secrets” thread that was one hell of a trainwreck in which most people not only refused to do so but reviled those who did. Not a whole lot of secrets were given away in that thread, IIRC. Why aren’t we allowed the same freedom of discussion and self-censorship for magic tricks?
I think TubaDiva’s call was a dud. And as far as the “magic tricks are the kind of ignorance that doesn’t need to be fought” bullshit, well go suck an egg. What if people use sleight-of-hand to rip other people off, did you think of that? Do we not have a right to learn those kinds of tricks so we can watch for them? Besides, who are you to decide whether or not I need to know that kind of information? Not only that, but knowing how a trick is done does not necessarily decrease the enjoyment of it, just like special effects in movies.
I wonder what the other Mods think of this one.
Discussions regarding Scientology and their methods should also be banned. Won’t someone think of the Scientologists?
Xenu
Don’t British magicians sell books, videotapes, etc… , then?
Personally, I’d be a lot more worried about Scientologists than magicians. But perhaps that’s just me. Maybe others are more frightened about being sawed in half. 
FYI, TubaDiva has responded to Jayrot’s ATMB thread on this subject, essentially just drawing a comparison between asking how a trick is done and asking someone to illegally upload music or movies. Oh, and she threatens us with the shutdown of the SDMB. She doesn’t seem to have paid attention to anything any of us have said in the two threads currently in the Pit.
Methinks the professional magician’s lobby has curiously strong pull among the SDMB administration, and I’d be very interested to see Tuba address any of the myriad arguments, legal or otherwise, made in this thread and in the original.