Well, perhaps trained in the responsibilities of arms.
Tris
Florida.
Did you wear body armor on campus?
Opps. pkbites, feel free to disregard my last question. Re-reading your earlier remarks, I guess that you stored your gun on campus for recreational purposes rather than for personal protection. Apologies for the confusion.
Since you asked, I’ll offer some critiques.
This sounds (what’s the right word?) a bit like “preening”. Since it is likely that you would have a concealed carry permit if you didn’t have a wife and son, you shouldn’t praise yourself because you do. You’re carrying a cross here. In fact, that whole paragraph is a bit too proud. You’re setting yourself up here for a negative reaction.
On your statistics, carrying over the data from the public at large to a campus population isn’t accurate. I know you didn’t do this in the OP, but it has a big effect on your “deterrence” argument, particularly since you made a point of bringing up the Va. Tech shotings. For one thing, data from Florida indicates that about 85% of concealed carry permit holders are male, while more that 50% of students are female. Further, about 75% of holders are over the age of 35. It seems that only about 19% of people between the ares of 18 and 25 are gun owners. cite
When it comes down to it statistically, if CC were allowed on your campus, an insignificant number of students would actually carry. Since you bring Va. Tech and deterrance/prevention into the picture, it doesn’t really help your argument. Better to leave that all out and argue from a second amendment perspective. That probably wouldn’t do much good, but this probably won’t either.
Anyway, it was well written.
I stepped away from this after submitting it because I didn’t want to become part of the argument, I wanted my words to make the argument for me. So far that has pretty much been the case.
Nevertheless, I am compelled to ask Terrifel why he has this strange obsession with body armor, why he has made inane comments multiple times, and why he thinks that it’s a point worth making.
I’ve taken the bait you so obviously wanted someone to take, so enlighten me. What point are you trying to make?
Looks to me like no one has answered Terrifel’s question, and that’s why he keeps asking it.
Well, as far as guns in dorms go, I can understand some of the concerns regarding the nature of dense, relatively disorganized housing, especially when it comes to liability. Though to be honest, I don’t see why the university, or the Dean of Students, or anybody, should be more responsible for the students living in dorms than any other landlord would be responsible for his tenants. We’re talking about adults here, not children. Why the difference?
Oh, please. Don’t be ridiculous. The distinction is not difficult to understand: carying a gun on campus is against the code of conduct and can get you expelled. Brandishing that gun or shooting people with it is against the law, and can get you shot. Police would be free to act in response to somebody acting in a threatening manner; however, they could not arrest an individual simply for carrying peaceably, since that is not a crime.
Really? Which state is that? I don’t know of any states offhand where there is actually a statutory prohibition of firearms on college campuses. I haven’t researched every state’s laws in depth, though, so I could easily have overlooked one.
You really like asking that question, don’t you? I’ll take the bait too: of course the answer is no. What’s your point?
Actually, you haven’t taken my “bait,” as you perceive it. You’ve judged it as “inane” and a “strange obsession” even while admitting that you don’t understand it. But you have not actually answered it. So allow me to ask you again. Given your inane OP, in which you display your strange obsession with allowing guns on campus to combat the threat of the Dreaded Psycho Killer… do you wear body armor on campus?
No need to get emotional, is there? Stick to the facts. Got any, or just your assertion of such?
This strikes me as an exceedingly weird thing to say in an editorial praising gun ownership/carry.
The people who could more likely be assumed to be walking around “in terror for their lives” are the people who insist they have to have a gun with them at all times to protect them.
It seems you are trying to say that people who don’t like guns are a bunch of fraidy cats, while I think an equal argument can be made that the people who carry guns are a bunch of fraidy cats.
I don’t have or carry a gun. I pretty much never think about being attacked. It’s not something I particularly fear. Between me and someone who carries a gun, which of us is more likely to be acting out of fear?
Fear is rational under some circumstances, of course.
Other than that, the article was okay. I’d suggest you edit it so the voice sounds like your own rather than an attempt at a more formal tone.
There’s a long history of colleges acting in loco parentis in a de facto if not de jure way. There’s also a more recent trend, at least among the well-off, of extending adolescence into the mid-twenties, so their parents and school administrators often don’t expect college students to behave as rational adults. I don’t agree at all with that school of thought, but it’s becoming very prevalent in higher ed.
Given that and the liability issues, my take is that there’s a snowball’s chance in hell of colleges allowing concealed carry on campus. Personally, that doesn’t bother me. I work on a college campus, and I wouldn’t feel lick safer if students could carry weapons. The Virginia Tech massacre was tragic, but I’m much more likely to be hit by a bus or struck by lightning than be a victim of a similar attack.
Well, it is a crime in some places. I know it’s a crime at my place of work. Or at least the University Police seem to think it is. I called them up earlier today just to double-check, in case I was in error. So if they’re wrong, maybe there’s the potential for a juicy lawsuit in there somewhere. Could mean big bucks for some enterprising gun hobbyist. Or possibly not.
Florida.
I’m trying to get a handle on how important the Psycho Killer argument is to the issue of concealed weapons at universities. I’ve never really spent much time worrying about the Psycho Killer, so the “no-gun” policy at my university has always seemed like an unqualified plus. You stated earlier that you don’t agree with your University’s “no-gun” policy, and you agreed with the OP’s concern over the safety of firearm-deprived students when the dreaded Psycho Killer strikes.
But since you’re not wearing perfectly legal body armor to class, you don’t really think you need your gun to protect yourself against the Psycho Killer, right? If you were genuinely concerned about the threat of the Psycho Killer, to the point that you agree the law should be changed to permit guns on campus… then, logically, you should already be doing everything within the law to protect yourself, shouldn’t you? If you need to carry a gun to protect yourself from the Psycho Killer, then you should also be wearing body armor to protect yourself from the Psycho Killer. And body armor is perfectly legal to wear right now. So if you agree that guns should be allowed on campus because of the Psycho Killer threat, you should also be wearing as much body armor as you can, for the same reason.
How many deaths would have been avoided at Virginia Tech if the victims had been wearing body armor? Probably some. Possibly most. Maybe even all? Who knows? Surely the failure to wear legal body armor is to blame, just like the absence of concealed weapons.
If police feel there’s a chance they will be shot at, they carry a gun… and wear a ballistic vest. If soldiers are at risk of being shot at, they carry a gun… and wear a helmet and a flak jacket. So if a university student thinks they are genuinely at risk of being shot at, and need to carry a gun… why aren’t they wearing body armor?
When you say, in effect, “I agree with the OP. Students should be allowed to carry guns on campus to protect themselves from the Psycho Killer,” then I think it’s fair to ask if you’re trying to protect yourself on campus now, using the legal means at your disposal. When you reply, “Of course the answer is no. What’s your point?” I can only conclude that you do not actually believe in the threat of the Psycho Killer.
As I said earlier, I don’t worry much about the Psycho Killer myself, so possibly I’ve missed something obvious. That’s why I’ve been asking the question repeatedly. Thanks for “taking the bait” and answering. You’re a stout debater.
I can’t speak for Airman Doors here, but I at least do not support student carry on campuses because of the possibility of another mass shooting. I support student carry on college campuses because I believe that every responsible adult should have the right to carry arms in their own defense wherever they go.
jsgoddess: It’s true that that is a common criticism of the gun-carrying population, but you might as well ask why cops carry guns, or claim that only fraidy-cats wear seatbelts. To a gun owner like myself, it’s simply a prudent exercise that costs me little trouble and prepares me for any of a number of highly unlikely but potentially deadly scenarios. It is also in recognition of the fact that the police often have little ability, and no specific duty, to protect me individually.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification; I’ve definitely noticed this attitude, but I wasn’t aware that there was a long history that might establish legal grounds for it. I don’t like it either, but I see where it comes from: I often find myself wishing some of my peers would grow the heck up, and there are plenty of them that I am glad do not own guns. 
I can understand this, and I agree that tragedies like Virginia Tech are themselves a poor justification for allowing carry on campus. As I mention above, I justify my support by my belief that a person who has shown themselves to be a responsible adult should not be stripped of their right to self-defense by virtue of their status as a student.
However, you might be wrong about the “snowball’s chance in hell” part - some universities and colleges already allow students to carry (Colorado State University, for one), and the Governor of Texas recently called for removing restrictions on where people could carry, including college campuses. (link) I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few more universities wind up changing their policies, though I agree that it’s unlikely to become widespread.
Well, it would appear you’re correct about the law in Florida. However, police officers are often unreliable sources of information regarding firearms law - if asked, a surprising number of them in my own state will try to tell you that open carry is illegal!
Ah. Well, like I said, the extremely infrequent mass shooting does not form any basis for my justification of concealed carry on campuses.
As for body armor: I don’t wear body armor because it’s expensive, and way too bulky and uncomfortable to be practical in day-to-day life. My risk of being shot is nowhere near high enough to justify that. It’s approaching paranoia if you allow yourself to significantly alter your lifestyle to face of an improbable threat. Carrying a gun, however, is no bother at all, much like wearing a seatbelt. Shooting is also a very enjoyable hobby for me, so maintaining proficiency is no trouble.
So, it’s much like you said: psycho killers are pretty much a negligible threat, and donning body armor in response to that threat would be irrational and unnecessary (not to mention uncomfortable!). If a psycho killer going on a mass shooting spree actually were a non-negligible threat, I would probably change schools in a hurry. Wearing body armor to class is simply not a realistic response.
I have, however, worn stormtrooper armor to class before, but that won’t even stop a medium-sized rock, and I definitely don’t plan on doing that again. 
Hey! My weight is just fine, thank you very much! 
I can see where you’re coming from, and the thought of folks like you and **Airman Doors ** quietly carrying firearms doesn’t bother me a bit. From a practical standpoint, though, I can see colleges deciding that the potential bad outweighs the rights of gun-owning students. Which might piss me off royally if I were a gun-owner, but as you’ve alluded to, many college students are utter morons. Unfair that the morons should take precedence over the level-headed, but, from an administration standpoint, I can understand why.
Very interesting! Thanks for the link. I can just imagine our Dean of Students and our VP for Business Affairs (who pays the college’s insurance premiums) breaking out in hives at the very thought.
:smack: Dagnabbit! I read your compliment of Airman Doors’ article, and your reply to Czarcasm’s analysis of the Virginia Tech situation, and I mistakenly assumed that you were endorsing the OP’s Virginia Tech supporting argument as well as the premise.
As pkbites might say, “When you ASSUME, you get shot in the ASS (and a sucking chest wound and a hole in the skull), deterring U, courtesy of ME.”
…Okay, pkbites probably wouldn’t say that. But I thought it was funny.
Yeah, I’ve seen those movies. Fortunately blaster fire is not yet a threat at our nation’s universities.
Well, I can understand how you might get that impression. In fairness, I do think that the possibility of bringing a quick end to some future mass shooting is a potential benefit of not denying students the right to carry, though a relatively insignificant one considering the extreme infrequency with which such events occur. Trying to argue the issue exclusively on the psycho-killer-mass-shooting grounds would be kinda like making sweeping and short-sighted policy changes in response to one high-profile terrorist attack…
I didn’t see any ewoks with twigs, either, so I think I’m in the clear.
(Heh. Sucking chest wounds: new gun control debate meme?)
It is, in fact, illegal in your state (Florida), but it’s not a felony:
CHAPTER 790
(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
Now I’m a bit confused. I carried my firearm on my person for protection. I stored it in my room when I went out drinking.