“Suspect beaten to death during mass-murder plot.”
These assholes go to universities to commit their loony suicide killing sprees because they know that’s where they’re likely to kill the most people with the least resistance. They’re cowards who go out of their way to avoid being physically confronted, and it would be nice to finally hear a story about one of these nutjobs getting the living shit kicked out of him while trying to pull one of these stunts off.
Better yet, it would be nice if someone beat the stuffing out of them, but the crazy fucker lived through it and got to spend the rest of his long, healthy life in a straightjacket. Your life sucks, fine. Fucking kill yourself, but leave everyone else out of it! The moment you try to murder and terrorize people is the moment you lose the right to die, you miserable shit.
Beaten with what? Shot with what? Stabbed with what?
Schools are cattle pens for these people. If a guy has 10 shots, then you can reasonably assume that the first 10 to try to stop them are going to get hurt. The human instinct for survival usually supercedes that sort of consideration, so they all try to hide and they all die because nobody has the ability to do anything. As long as schools paint targets on their students with their proscriptions on people carrying weapons to defend themselves, they create shooting galleries.
Ah, forget it. We’ve done this argument too many times, I won’t be the one that starts it. Let’s leave it at this: what you would like to see would require something other than what we currently have.
It only takes one person to stop someone like that. Either that person wasn’t there or wasn’t close enough to do anything about it. I think self preservation keeps many from making sacrifices like that. But that’s the thing, it’s self preservation. The fear of death is a very powerful deterent.
That’s one of those things that almost sounds good in these cases until you picture panic striken students ducking under desks while reaching up to blindly fire their handgun in the general direction of the shooter.
Anyway, since you asked, 38 states are “shall issue” states, most of them are new to the policy, and those states have not turned into the Wild West. No blood waist-deep in the streets. Apply those rights to a campus, and why would it be reasonable to assume that they would be any different? You can only carry in the “real world” based upon a few conditions:
You’re 21.
You pass a background check.
You submit to whatever identification procedure they demand of you.
This is not a mechanical license. You don’t get it because you turn 21. You actually have to go and ask for it, and then you have to go through whatever rigamarole they throw at you. These are not people who shoot up schools.
This is not a question of arming massive numbers of students. This is a question of permitting those who can carry off-campus to carry on-campus. In any case, it would be a very small number of students (must be junior/senior/non-traditional, must have permit, must live off-campus, must be resident of state) who are all vetted.
Mosier
In a way it seems as if you are pitting students and colleges more so than the “spree killers”.
So, if these shooters were to go to, let’s say a Monster Truck Rally, that tough-as-nails crowd wouldn’t care about preserving their own life and would go right for that shooter? I doubt it.
Exactly, or what about when young Timmy is dumped? Or two frat boys are in a drunken fight. Or finals are looking horrible and you’re way behind and you’re wasting $50,000 of your parents money, and you hate your major and there, in the drawer is a gun.
Giving guns to college age people in a college situation is moronic.
Is this the point where some genius (user name starts with an “s”, IIRC) will suggest that a gunman attacking a kindergarten should logically be taken down by the kindergarteners if only they’d act properly?
That’s a fair posit. I would counter that it would be very disruptive to have openly held handguns in classrooms. Can you imagine if the obnoxious know it all in history was packing heat? Is a professor supposed to discipline someone carrying a weapon? It would create an aura of intimidation.
Now if you wanna go concealed weapons, maybe that’s different.
Indeed, which is why it should be concealed. Then again, when people open carry they know all eyes are on them (the police harass the hell out of people who open carry), so if they’re doing it they’re obviously not a threat. Only an idiot tells the world he’s going to kill a lot of people and then walks out with a gun on his hip.
I’m all for it. For all anybody knows I could be carrying a weapon in class. Of course, I’m not, but you don’t know that to look at me, do you?
This tired old argument is trotted out all the time in the campus carry debate.
You’re deliberately ignoring an important fact: the “college age people” who would carry on campus already have guns, which they regularly carry on city streets and into shopping malls. Where are the random shootings? Where is the bloodbath? Where is there one iota of evidence for the claim that school-related stress will turn otherwise healthy, sane people into eye-twitching murderers?
As I mentioned in the other thread, Utah has allowed students to carry on campus for nearly two years now. So far there has been no reason to think that crossing the invisible line around campus will cause people to turn into crazed killers.
Further, what’s to stop poor Timmy from taking out his relationship woes on the rest of the campus right now? He’s already able to own a gun. If he’s interested in self-defense, he probably already has one. If he’s interested in recreational shooting, he probably already has a whole arsenal. (I know I do :D) If he lives off-campus, there’s nothing stopping him from having a gun in his drawer.
Do you want to argue that perhaps students shouldn’t be allowed to keep guns in dorm rooms? Well, I think they should, but I can see a few not-too-stupid arguments for the other position. I’d be much more willing to debate that.
Also, I don’t see where Airman Doors was advocating open carry on campus. IMHO that’s more an issue of school dress codes.
That might just be enough to get the job the done. I guess I don’t really know how someone hell bent on suicide is going to react when taking fire, but most people would take cover, which would purchase time.
Also, I would think that people who choose to get the CCP and actually carry (guns are heavy, and kind of a pain in the ass to lug around) know what they are doing, at least to some degree.
I have no problem with having guns at your home of course. I was talking about in dorms. I would think it would have to be concealed just because of the ruckus and disruption a visible gun would cause.
That said, how hard is it to get a concealed permit? Can an average college student get one? Don’t you have to show cause, like “I live in a shitty neighborhood”, or “I deal in diamonds and carry a ton of money on me”?
Nope. Not in a “Shall Issue” state. They have to give you a permit unless they can prove you are unfit for one. That’s the whole point of “shall issue.” It keeps politics out of the system, supposedly.
Having a bunch of armed students didn’t deter Charles Whitman on the UT campus, why should it deter any other crazy. It was the police who eventually stopped him.
Random shootings happen all the time in place where people can carry guns. Remember the recent shopping mall spree? I can’t think of any case were some random person with a gun stopped a mass murderer.
