[QUOTE=silenus]
Nope. Not in a “Shall Issue” state. They have to give you a permit unless they can prove you are unfit for one. That’s the whole point of “shall issue.” It keeps politics out of the system, supposedly.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I looked it up and now know a bit more. Thanks, ignorance fought.
[QUOTE=Lobohan]
I have no problem with having guns at your home of course. I was talking about in dorms. I would think it would have to be concealed just because of the ruckus and disruption a visible gun would cause.
[/quote]
It wouldn’t cause a ruckus if most people didn’t have such a bizarre attitude towards guns…
Nope, like silenus said, most states are “shall issue” now, meaning they must issue a license so long as the applicant passes the background check and any training that is applicable. There is no training requirement in my state. IIRC, 37 states are “shall-issue” now, and two (Vermont and Alaska) have no restriction on carrying firearms whatsoever.
So yes, the average college student who is at least 21 years of age can definitely get a license. I know several of my fellow students (just in my department) who are firearms enthusiasts with concealed pistol licenses. They are all serious, responsible individuals who are well-versed in gun safety.
Ever heard of a man named Joel Myrick? The fact that he stopped a school shooting in Pearl, MS is not all that well known, but he did. He did so after retrieving his firearm from his car.
Remember the shooting at the Appalachian Law School? It was ended by students who got their guns out of their cars.
Do you remember when a fourteen year old student started shooting at a school dance in Edinboro, PA? James Strand grabbed a shotgun and apprehended the shooter.
Those events were not as widely publicized as some of the others, but none the less are examples of times when things could’ve been much, much worse.
[QUOTE=catsix]
Remember the shooting at the Appalachian Law School? It was ended by students who got their guns out of their cars.
[/quote]
Disputed. http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh112203.shtml
Yep. Mr. Strand grabbed a shotgun, not his carry-permitted handgun.
If I came to class and found myself surrounded by gun-toting tweens, I’d not only arm myself to the teeth, I’d show up every day in full riot gear.
As for concealed weapons, I think a fair balance can be struck: issue the permit, but stipulating rectal concealment only. It’ll help naturally limit the size of weaponry brought in, for all but the most ardent and dedicated gun enthusiasts.
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
If I came to class and found myself surrounded by gun-toting tweens
[/QUOTE]
Right-I just sent out a bunch of scholarship rejections to young, male Texans. Most of whom are currently in my building on my floor. I would need to work from an undisclosed location.
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee]
Having a bunch of armed students didn’t deter Charles Whitman on the UT campus, why should it deter any other crazy. It was the police who eventually stopped him.
[/QUOTE]
Whitman shot people from a tower. Most concelaed carry guns make pretty poor counter-sniper weapons. Unless sombody has a conceled Dragunov under a really long coat, concealed carry ain’t going to help here.
And it may not reduce shootings at all, but I don’t really see shooting incresing. I’d like to see some modeling, though.
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
No blood waist-deep in the streets.
[/QUOTE]
Can you set the bar a little lower, please?
[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
Whitman shot people from a tower. Most concelaed carry guns make pretty poor counter-sniper weapons. Unless sombody has a conceled Dragunov under a really long coat, concealed carry ain’t going to help here.
And it may not reduce shootings at all, but I don’t really see shooting incresing. I’d like to see some modeling, though.
[/QUOTE]
I am not sure what your point is-Whitman was the aggressor. The aggressor can use whatever weapon he wants.
If there were there more guns in colleges-I think there would be more suicide in dorms. I doubt spree killings would be affected in the least.
[QUOTE=Stealth Potato]
This tired old argument is trotted out all the time in the campus carry debate.
You’re deliberately ignoring an important fact: the “college age people” who would carry on campus already have guns, which they regularly carry on city streets and into shopping malls. Where are the random shootings? Where is the bloodbath? Where is there one iota of evidence for the claim that school-related stress will turn otherwise healthy, sane people into eye-twitching murderers?
As I mentioned in the other thread, Utah has allowed students to carry on campus for nearly two years now. So far there has been no reason to think that crossing the invisible line around campus will cause people to turn into crazed killers.
Further, what’s to stop poor Timmy from taking out his relationship woes on the rest of the campus right now? He’s already able to own a gun. If he’s interested in self-defense, he probably already has one. If he’s interested in recreational shooting, he probably already has a whole arsenal. (I know I do :D) If he lives off-campus, there’s nothing stopping him from having a gun in his drawer.
Do you want to argue that perhaps students shouldn’t be allowed to keep guns in dorm rooms? Well, I think they should, but I can see a few not-too-stupid arguments for the other position. I’d be much more willing to debate that.
Also, I don’t see where Airman Doors was advocating open carry on campus. IMHO that’s more an issue of school dress codes. 
[/QUOTE]
Not only that, but remember the arguments 20 years ago when Florida passed its “shall issue” concealed weapons permit law? At the time some small states had “shall-issue” but Florida was the first large state to pass it.
I remember all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth. People would be shooting at Cubans trying to come ashore. People would get into a fender bender and the argument would escalate into a wild-west shootout. Neighbors would kill each other over boundary disputes. People waiting in line at the grocery store would shoot each other over who was first in line, etc. etc. etc.
All of that complaining and it never came to pass. Law-abiding people are able to control their arguments without resorting to murder, and the criminals already carry guns illegally anyways. That’s why they are called “criminals”. It always amazes me to find otherwise intelligent people thinking that gun laws will keep guns away from the bad guys.
I’m not saying that allowing concealed carry on campus would guarantee a student’s safety, but it is morally wrong for a college administration to tell a student that he/she may not carry a weapon for protection, but then not provide adequate security, not only in class, but elsewhere on campus
The idea that heroes with guns would have always stopped these things is just cranky NRA damage control. They know, deep down inside, that every time some prick opens fire, they are in a little bit more trouble.
I actually lean second amendment, even though (or because?) I’m a liberal, but I find these arguments hard to believe. Alternative histories are non-falsifiable, but I think it goes without saying that the more people with guns, the more crazy people with guns.
I’m thinking that perhaps there should be a ban on black clothing. It’s what all these guys seem to wear.
Better yet, how about a dress code requiring everyone to wear bright red, yellow and blue? I’m thinking it’s hard to work up a rage when you look like the sartorial version of a banjo.
[QUOTE=bannerrefugee]
I am not sure what your point is-Whitman was the aggressor. The aggressor can use whatever weapon he wants.
If there were there more guns in colleges-I think there would be more suicide in dorms. I doubt spree killings would be affected in the least.
[/QUOTE]
You may have missed the counter-sniper part of my post.
My point is, a citizen with a little .38 isn’t going to take out a tower sniper but might help in the more common nut in a classroom case.
My fire extinguisher won’t do anything against a forest fire behind my house, but might put out a kitchen fire.
[QUOTE=Lobohan]
Giving guns to college age people in a college situation is moronic.
[/QUOTE]
What about college age people who live off campus and have guns?
Marc
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
I’m thinking that perhaps there should be a ban on black clothing. It’s what all these guys seem to wear.
Better yet, how about a dress code requiring everyone to wear bright red, yellow and blue? I’m thinking it’s hard to work up a rage when you look like the sartorial version of a banjo.
[/QUOTE]
You know, that might work. How about striped stockings? I think “looking cool” plays into these homicidal fantasies, and looking like Pippi Longstocking would take away any delusion that you look cool shooting up a classroom.
[QUOTE=cricetus]
…looking like Pippi Longstocking would take away any delusion that you look cool shooting up a classroom.
[/QUOTE]
True.
It might cause an upswing in suicides though. 
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
I’m thinking that perhaps there should be a ban on black clothing. It’s what all these guys seem to wear.
Better yet, how about a dress code requiring everyone to wear bright red, yellow and blue? I’m thinking it’s hard to work up a rage when you look like the sartorial version of a banjo.
[/QUOTE]
You know, there are several “locations” at Disneyland (and I suppose probably Disneyworld, though I’m not up on their culture) that have basically this dress code. And I’m not aware of any shootings at DL (stabbings, yes. Shootings, no.)
Perhaps there is something to this. Can I wear red, green, and blue, though? I always look jaundiced in yellow.
[QUOTE=SisterCoyote]
Can I wear red, green, and blue, though? I always look jaundiced in yellow.
[/QUOTE]
Sure! Green, too! 
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Yeah, I suppose it is too late.
Anyway, since you asked, 38 states are “shall issue” states, most of them are new to the policy, and those states have not turned into the Wild West. No blood waist-deep in the streets. Apply those rights to a campus, and why would it be reasonable to assume that they would be any different? You can only carry in the “real world” based upon a few conditions:
This is not a mechanical license. You don’t get it because you turn 21. You actually have to go and ask for it, and then you have to go through whatever rigamarole they throw at you. These are not people who shoot up schools.
This is not a question of arming massive numbers of students. This is a question of permitting those who can carry off-campus to carry on-campus. In any case, it would be a very small number of students (must be junior/senior/non-traditional, must have permit, must live off-campus, must be resident of state) who are all vetted.
Give the herd some teeth, and this stuff stops.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never met someone with this attitude in real life, and I think you are a fucking lunatic.
ex-Navy, qualified duty gunnersmate, currently attending a university.
[QUOTE=alterego]
I’ve never met someone with this attitude in real life, and I think you are a fucking lunatic.
ex-Navy, qualified duty gunnersmate, currently attending a university.
[/QUOTE]
…what?
He’s a lunatic for wanting to extend the right of responsible adults to carry to their university campuses? Are you sure you’re replying to the right post? Your reply just seems so incongruous I’m having a hard time believing it. :dubious: