Idle Thoughts, you are everything that's wrong with America

[msmith537]

@Uvula Donor

No. You’re Flanders. Go sit down.

I believe the term is “shut-up Flanders”…stupid sexy Flanders

[uglybeech]

Bullocks, all of you. You don’t know what’s wrong with Idle. As a hosptial admin, I worked with any number of hospital volunteers and for the record, a lot of these people were flat out unemployable. They couldn’t work at Wal-mart and it’s iffy if they could hold the most menial work reliably. I never knew exactly what was wrong with most of them, but often it was something very weird about their personality that I couldn’t begin to put a diagnosis on. The glaring problem was usually inappropriateness, but also inability to follow instructions, and an inability to think straight. There was the very well-meaning woman who talked non-stop to everyone who came near her. There was the man who wouldn’t talk period, and if he did talk it was inaudible. There were people who were clearly educated and you could hold a very normal conversation with, but it turns out they couldn’t get their act together enough to put files in alphabetical order. There was the guy who seemed bright and capable, but when you corrected anything he did had a breakdown.

So I have no problem believing that Idle Thoughts needs his disability and I give him credit for doing the volunteer work. I don’t think he’d have gotten disability otherwise. It’s not like you can just show up at the disability office and get it. Maybe he’s not like these people, but there’s every chance he is.

And for the love of god, why is it that everybody thinks they can evalute a mental illness over the internet? This is like the stupid ferret thread, where everyone decided they were an expert on all anxiety disorders in all cases just because they’d had one or known someone who had.* You don’t know what’s good for ferret-girl, and you don’t know what’s wrong with Idle. *

(For the record, there were also some fantastic volunteers. So I don’t want to make it seem like volunteering is a freak show. But as an administrative department we got a lot of the people who you wouldn’t want interacting with patients.)

[threemae]

even sven, I don’t think that anyone here is doubting the validity of bipolar disorder. For people that have severe cases of bipolar that need treatment and it makes it impossible for them to function in a normal manner or be employable. However, just like ADHD, bipolar is now entering a period where normal ranges of human behavior and affect are being overpathologized, and, well, lazy people like Idle Thoughts that don’t feel much like voting either cling on to it as a diagnostic label and use it to extract unreasonable benefits from it.

Like most clinical psychological or psychiatric issues, we need more objective metrics so that the people that need help for bipolar, schizophrenia, or what have you get it.

[furt]

@uglybeech

.* You don’t know what’s good for ferret-girl, and you don’t know what’s wrong with Idle. *

If we know he isn’t taking the meds that would allow at least the possibility of becoming a more productive membber of society, we know a lot.

[Uvula_Donor]

@uglybeech

And for the love of god, why is it that everybody thinks they can evalute a mental illness over the internet?

Some asshole makes their “mental illness” a centerpoint of their posts, it’s going to get discussed.

[andros]

“Bullocks?” Would that be Sandra, Jm, or the walking porterhouse? Just wondering, is all.

[Jackmannii]

Can I be what’s wrong with America in the next thread?

[Gr8Kat]

@uglybeech

Bullocks, all of you. You don’t know what’s wrong with Idle. As a hosptial admin, I worked with any number of hospital volunteers and for the record, a lot of these people were flat out unemployable. They couldn’t work at Wal-mart and it’s iffy if they could hold the most menial work reliably.

So what tasks were assigned to them in a hospital??

[AuntiePam]

@uglybeech

I never knew exactly what was wrong with most of them, but often it was something very weird about their personality that I couldn’t begin to put a diagnosis on. The glaring problem was usually inappropriateness, but also inability to follow instructions, and an inability to think straight. There was the very well-meaning woman who talked non-stop to everyone who came near her. There was the man who wouldn’t talk period, and if he did talk it was inaudible. There were people who were clearly educated and you could hold a very normal conversation with, but it turns out they couldn’t get their act together enough to put files in alphabetical order. There was the guy who seemed bright and capable, but when you corrected anything he did had a breakdown.

This describes many people at the last place I worked. It was a factory with an assembly line, unionized (once you finished probation your job was safe unless you broke the rules), where often a person’s job was putting screws in holes, thousands of times a shift.

These folks would never be accepted in a workplace where they might have to deal with the public or act independently, but doing assembly line work where they didn’t even have to interact with the person next to them suited them perfectly.

We hired a lot of people who were referred to us from job placement programs at halfway houses, people with diagnosed mental ailments.

I guess my point is that people with disabilities need to (cliche alert) think outside the box when it comes to employment. They might not be able to get the job they want or think they deserve, but opportunities are there.

[John_Mace]

@Jackmannii

Can I be what’s wrong with America in the next thread?

Only if you agree to be everything that’s wrong with America…

[iluvurmom]

Oh thank God. I have been fuming all day at work. I clicked on the “i don’t vote” thread this morning and the rest of the day was down the shitter. I have put off several projects today becauce I have been so preoccupied arguing with Idle and Trunk.

The name of the thread pissed me off so much, then the ridiculous arguments sent me over the damn edge. It’s a Friday and I thought my weekend was going to be ruined by these dumbasses. I was imagining myself, drinking it up at bars this weekend thinking about this and becoming instantaniosly pissed. Describing these idiots arguments to perfect strangers and encouraging them to fuel my fire.

But, no…SERENITY NOW. I have found this thread and things are right again in this world. Thank you all for sharing my thoughts. I can now go to happy hour with a smile!!

[uglybeech]

@AuntiePam

This describes many people at the last place I worked. It was a factory with an assembly line, unionized (once you finished probation your job was safe unless you broke the rules), where often a person’s job was putting screws in holes, thousands of times a shift.

[shrug] well I suppose I could think of jobs for these people, but I could think up jobs for a quadriplegic too. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get disability. Anyway I was under the impression that unionized assembly line jobs aren’t easy to come by.

@Gr8Kat

So what tasks were assigned to them in a hospital??

Not all hospital work is direct patient care. There are plenty of truly menial tasks that just need getting done.

@Andros

“Bullocks?” Would that be Sandra, Jm, or the walking porterhouse? Just wondering, is all.

Oh fuck. I don’t know how to spell bollocks. I don’t suppose you could have just graciously let that pass?

[andros]

Nnnnnnope.

[Nilor]

@Idle Thoughts

I do, actually. I volunteer 3 times a week at the V.A Hospital, however, that was downgraded from 5 days a week. I loved it so much, I used to go every day of the workweek and put in about 10 hours a day. But get this, they actually had to tell me that I couldn’t do it that much. Ha. So I only go 3 days now.

I also do a lot of community service and participate in fundraisers that my local Case Managers office holds monthy.

@davenportavenger

<snip>
You feel you are entitled to money that you didn’t earn, then don’t bother learning where it comes from and don’t even care about keeping it.
<snip>
apathy and parasitism.

I would argue against what you are implying here. I don’t know idle thoughts but if you accept his claim of doing 10 hours of volunteer work per day, then I do not see how you can possibly think that he is apathetic or feels that he is entitled to the money.

It is clear that he is not sitting around moping all day, nor is he just taking money from the government. He is giving back to society. Why do you have a problem with him, clearly working similar hours to a ‘normal’ person, deciding to live off disability and volunteer instead of holding a job?

What, is it that he’s not like you? Doesn’t go to an office? That he has the option of not volunteering and you don’t have the option of not working?

I’m not going to defend his actions with respect to anything else though.

[Scissorjack]

It seemed to me that he was trying a little too hard to push people’s buttons with his “happy to be ignorant and apathetic” schtick: if he really is that stupid and lazy, why would he even start a thread about something he purports to have no interest in unless it was calculated to piss people off?

[AuntiePam]

@uglybeech

[shrug] well I suppose I could think of jobs for these people, but I could think up jobs for a quadriplegic too. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get disability. Anyway I was under the impression that unionized assembly line jobs aren’t easy to come by.

Not around here. The work is physical and tedious, turnover is high, and the plant I’m talking about has a hard time maintaining a full workforce.

I’m not saying that anyone could do the work, especially at first, if you’re out of condition, but I was constantly surprised at the success of the non-traditional workers, people who Wal-Mart probably wouldn’t hire.

[Metacom]

@furt

If we know he isn’t taking the meds that would allow at least the possibility of becoming a more productive membber of society, we know a lot.

Idle Thoughts aside, I disagree with that statement in the general case. I don’t think it’s reasonable to demand that someone take drugs that can have spotty effectivity and massive side effects because they might make them a more productive member of society, and I don’t think less of someone who chooses not to take harsh medication (many psych drugs, chemo, etc.) because they view the side effects as worse then the disease.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@davenportavenger

You don’t have a job, citing bipolar disorder as the reason for your disability. Yet in this thread you say that you don’t even think that you are bipolar; you don’t take medication for it. I know bipolar people, some on disability, most not, and none of them show such casual disregard for their diagnosis as you do.

No, I don’t think I have it…but what do I know? My doctors certainly think it, as they made the diagnosis based on sessions where I told them how I feel and what’s going on in my life.

About meds, I go off and on with them. Not by my own choice. My doctor will slowly but surely decrease my dosage until I’m not taking them anymore at times (well, thus far that’s only happened twice), because I seem to actually be able to get along without them for certain long intervals. He puts me back on them, however, if I ever start feeling more depressed as usual,…and currently I’m taking them. Depakote and WellButrin.

My own father is bipolar and takes meds for it AND has a full-time job, and I’m sure he’s way worse off than you, mental health-wise. And when I think about all that man goes through, managing a severe illness while working a job that probably pays him LESS than you get from the government, it makes me sick to my stomach.

I’m sorry about your father. I think that a lot of people have varying levels though. Could I work? Probably. But in my history of working, I’ve been stressed to the max to where I actually have nervous breakdowns on the job. And this has been with every job so far, even ones I liked having and enjoyed doing.
I only get about $570 a month, by the way, so I’m not sure how much your father gets.

I’m not saying there’s not mentally ill people who can’t work and do need government money, but those people are super-low functioning, certainly not people who can spend forty hours a week volunteering and don’t need meds to function.

I don’t spend forty hours anymore, like I said in that first linked topic. That ended about 3 years ago. But voluteering, for me, wasn’t stressful at all. I often said and thought that if the volunteering job was a pay job, why…I could do that no problem. And yes, I have applied for that type of job, both there at the V.A and elsewhere, many times.

You (along with a bunch of other pathetic males) complain about not having a girlfriend, completely missing the fact that to most women, your not working while not showing any/many obvious signs of your disability would be a major turnoff.

Yeah, you’re right.

Women don’t like human parasites any more than we like the ones that live in our digestive tracts.

However, here, you are not right. I’m not a parasite. I don’t leech off or take help from anyone else. I have had girlfriends before, and I don’t take their money or things of that nature. I can handle my own finances and bills, thank you very much.

You start almost as many useless threads as Wesley Clark and most of them are TMI. That’s annoying too.

Well, I’m sorry.
However, I can’t promise you I won’t make topics anymore.

And lastly, the linked thread. There, you claim to not even know the difference between a socialist and a conservative, you say you don’t keep up with politics, yet “love your country.” Well, I guess I’d love my country too, if it rained money on me, but seriously dude! Don’t you see the hypocrisy in “loving your country” and then not learning anything about its current state? Your posts in that thread sum up everything that is wrong in our generation today–no wonder they refer to us as the entitlement generation.

I just don’t see how not voting means I don’t care about anybody or anything or this country.

You feel you are entitled to money that you didn’t earn, then don’t bother learning where it comes from and don’t even care about keeping it. (You mentioned something about going back to being homeless if you lose your checks, yeah that’s a turn-on.) Don’t bother to keep informed, don’t bother voting, don’t think the president matters. Of course, you’re a (mostly) straight white male, so much of what goes on won’t ever affect you.

Yeah, you’re right in a way.

Will you be affected if they overturn Roe v. Wade? Didn’t think so, unless you find that magical girlfriend who looks past your apathy and parasitism.

I’m not a parasite, though. Not in any way I know of, unless you think that taking money off my disability is a form of it.

@TwoTrouts

<snip>
But… stop whining and do something!

I don’t whine about it. If you’re referring to the “Would you date me?” thread, I just thought that would be a good idea for a topic, and needed to give some background on myself so the people here would know what to expect.

@DogMom

And you’re right, m’lady: Idle Thoughts REALLY needs to get less “idle”. And I really, really, REALLY wish the whole “self-diagnosis with mental disorder du jour instead of being honest and saying I’m a lazy fuck” thing would just go away.

I didn’t self-diagnose myself.

@hajario

Sadly, this world if full of leeching losers who add nearly nothing to society. It’s one thing to really need the help, it’s quite another to take the generosity because any job for which you are qualified is “beneath you.” To brag about your leachness on top of that is disgusting.

Where have I ever said or made any reference to this? I never said that. I don’t think that at all.

@threemae

<snip>…and, well, lazy people like Idle Thoughts that don’t feel much like voting either cling on to it as a diagnostic label and use it to extract unreasonable benefits from it.

So I’m lazy because I don’t vote?

@Case Sensitive

It seemed to me that he was trying a little too hard to push people’s buttons with his “happy to be ignorant and apathetic” schtick: if he really is that stupid and lazy, why would he even start a thread about something he purports to have no interest in unless it was calculated to piss people off?

It was a thread because my one friend feels the way much of you do about the not voting thing, and, at the time, I wanted to see what you all thought about it.

I’m sorry for all the people I seem to have offended.

[Idle_Thoughts]

Actually, I meant I’m sorry to all the people I seem to have offended.

[choie]

Hope this isn’t too much of a highjack, but it would have never occured to me that being bipolar was even close to sufficient to receive diability. Don’t most folks with bipolarism take their meds and live their lives – complete with jobs, relationships, and responsibilities?

Many certainly do. Of course, who even knows if Idle Thoughts has this illness if it’s self-diagnosed as alleged earlier?

But if s/he does, it’s not as easy as just popping some pills and living one’s life. Treating mental illness is a Catch-22: by the very nature of the disease, a patient’s cognitive thinking is often impaired. (Put it this way: would you want to leave some crazy person in charge of your health? :))

Someone with severe depression may think, “why bother taking medication if I’m a waste of humanity and doomed to failure no matter what I do?” or “the meds aren’t doing anything and it takes too much energy to go to therapy.” Meanwhile, someone with bipolar disorder may very well feel great while in a “manic” phase; their brains are telling them that they can handle almost anything, that they’re on top of the world. If taking medication’s gonna take all that way, why would you want to?

And even more ironic: when you start to take meds and manage to stay on them, the minute you start feeling better, an insidious little voice inside you whispers, “hey, you’re cured! you can stop taking the meds now, you’re normal!” That’s when many people stop treatment … only to fall into the cycle once more.

It’s hard for non-depressive types to fathom just how fucking exhausting it is to battle these lying messages your own mind is sending you day after day, hour by hour. In many cases it’s a lifelong chore that requires constant maintenance. Personally I think depression and bipolar disorder are the Iagos of diseases. They’re selfish, treacherous, jealous, aggressive, fiercely self-protective, and will do anything to guarantee their own supremecy. As you can well imagine, it ain’t easy defeating such a foe – especially one living in your own head!

That does NOT mean that every sufferer has a built-in excuse for doing absolutely nothing to help him- or herself. Like it or not, the battle must be joined if you want to have any hope of recovery. I just wanted to show just what many people dealing with these illnesses are going through. It’s frustrating as all hell to watch from the outside, I know, but some sympathy is in order.

('Course, my sympathy doesn’t extend to people who don’t vote. Fuck 'em!)