If a motivational speaker cites Steve Jobs & Ayn Rand as inspirational leaders is that an issue?

Darren Hardy is a motivational speaker and management has arranged for us to listen to his video presentations. As these kinds of speakers go he is very polished has a good many excellent points re focusing on your business etc. Like a number of these guys he throws out a lot of inspirational quotes. In context the content of the of the quotes he cites are fine but these are both people of a somewhat narrowly absolutist type world views, and based on histories of their lives they were both very rough, ego driven and dismissive personalities to interact with personally on a day to day basis. Jobs especially outside of business was apparently a pretty awful human being to deal with.

Now, I’m not clutching pearls on this, I’m sure Stalin and Hitler probably had few inspirational bot mots as well that might fit into any modern motivational presentation, but when you hear the words. “As Ayn Rand said”… or “as Steve Jobs said” it’s hard to disassociate them, as not great people character-wise, from their quotes.

Should the source matter as long as the quotes are germane to the topic at hand?

Jobs- sure, maybe, once in a while.

But Ayn Rand? Run away!:eek:

If someone quoted Ayn Rand approvingly (except in a ‘blind pig finds an acorn’ kind of way), I’d be very cautious about their ethics and, well, intelligence.

However, it’s a business motivational speaker. Who cares? The useful point of this kind of thing isn’t really even anything the guy says; it’s to give you a chance to think big-picture and/or general approaches for a bit without some particular detail you have to solve right this second. . As long as he talks about those kinds of things, he doesn’t even have to be right; getting you to say ‘No, that’s not right, or doesn’t apply to our company’ is just as worthwhile.

Any kind of video like that is a chance for you to look at the screen and nod thoughtfully while you plan your next vacation or see if you can remember the line up of the '86 Mets. Nothing important is going to be conveyed, it’s the equivalent of the substitute teacher showing a film strip.

Yeah, the point is that you can go to work and be paid and not have to produce work. If it makes you feel better, don’t hesitate to laugh out loud if he says dumb shit. I mean – this is watching from your desk on a monitor, right? You don’t have to explain gales of laughter to your fellow audience members, do you?

Inspirational quotes are meaningless tripe in the first place. Most are mis-attributed to Mark Twain, Yogi Berra, or Benjamin Franklin, and I admire the adventurous spirit of someone who attributes them to somebody else. Also, by noting whom someone attributes a quote to, you can get a good sense of who their heroes are, and therefore creating a basis for judging whether the rest of what they say is bullshit or not.

I’m rational and not a special snowflake so I try to not be influenced by the Halo effect - Wikipedia. I find the source to be typically irrelevant for my own decision making. I’ll take good ideas from Hitler or Stalin if I find them useful.

I knew Ayn Rand. I’m stayin’ outta this.

(so far)

It’s OK unless his parents are Ayn Rand and God.

We’ve had these kind of events where a bunch of us get together and watch a video as part of a larger team building type event. Sometimes there’s muffins or pizza. I spend a lot of time looking thoughtful while I try to recount the entire plot of a movie or think about fly fishing.

Who is this John Galt guy anyway?

I had a particularly sadistic philosophy professor who assigned us Atlas Shrugged. Dullest book I’ve ever read, and if not the longest it’s right up there.

I would say it’s more likely he hasn’t actually read anything by Rand, just some lists of quotes. Rand once said that child murderer and possible cannibal William Hickman was the man she admired most because he lived by his own rules, and didn’t buckle down to society’s expectations. Hickman was also a confessed bank robber, although he was never tried for that, as he was sentenced to death for the child murder. Rand defended him, and claimed that people who condemned him had been brainwashed by society to believe that anyone who didn’t conform to its mores was automatically bad, as though his crime had been smoking pot in a local park, or something. Anyone who had actually read Rand should know these things.

FWIW, I’d really like to hear your thoughts on what RivkahChaya posted above.

I’ve read multiple polemics on Rand. I’ve read a few of her books too. Can’t say I’m a fan of her philosophies; I tend to side with her detractors. But I’m interested in hearing your opinions.

Not a fan of people who lionize Jobs. Just at the “meh” level. Long time Computer Science person so I know a lot of the ugly details. I’d tune them out when they’re talking about Jobs.

Rand? Time to run away.

My, how interesting. *Do *go on!