If Abraham Lincoln Had Never Been Assassinated.

[Bridget_Burke]

@WillFarnaby

Lincoln’s legacy would tarnished with scandal. From his imprisonment of thousands of dissidents, his arrest of a member of congress, and his consideration of the arrest of Justice Taney, to his crony railroad deals, support of the Illinois Black Codes and Corwin amendment, and refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession, Lincoln was a pretty rotten guy. Not a guy you’d build a temple to for tourists to warble hosannas at his feet.

Preaching from the works of Thomas DiLorenzo…

When John Wilkes Booth jumped from the balcony at Ford’s Theatre after shooting President Lincoln, he famously shouted, “Sic semper tyrannis.” There’s an element of the contemporary right that may disagree with the assassin’s method, but certainly agrees with his sentiment.

It is the Lincoln-Hating Right. You can’t belong unless you feel a compulsion to write “bloody-minded tyrant” immediately before or after the name “Abraham Lincoln.” Some members of this fraternity are old-style Lost Cause romantics, deluding themselves about the “War for Southern Independence,” as some Southerners have been doing since about 1866, while others are a peculiar breed of libertarian…

[Little_Nemo]

@smiling_bandit

Also, also, “crony railroad deals”? I’ve looked up quite a bit of history, and still can’t figure out what you mean here.

I’m just guessing here but I think Will might be referring to Lincoln’s legal career before he entered politics. Lincoln was a successful business lawyer and had represented railroad companies. But as far as I know, he never gave preferential treatment as President to any railroad business he had been associated with.

[Little_Nemo]

@WillFarnaby

refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession

Good for him. Lincoln was right.

[WillFarnaby]

@Little_Nemo

Good for him. Lincoln was right.

This reminds me of the infamous declaration by Madeline Albright that the tens of thousands of Iraqi children who died as a result of Clinton-era sanctions was “worth it”.

[Bridget_Burke]

@WillFarnaby

This reminds me of the infamous declaration by Madeline Albright that the tens of thousands of Iraqi children who died as a result of Clinton-era sanctions was “worth it”.

I don’t consider the situations identical.

Also, you really need to drop that “compassion” act. It’s doesn’t suit you.

[CarnalK]

@WillFarnaby

This reminds me of the infamous declaration by Madeline Albright that the tens of thousands of Iraqi children who died as a result of Clinton-era sanctions was “worth it”.

So as a libertarian, you’re saying a peaceful secession would have been worth leaving millions of people in chains? That’s odd. I would have thought stopping slavery would be one of the things a libertarian would accept as a proper function of government.

[RickJay]

If I am not mistaken Will advocates the (preposterous) idea that the Union could have bought all the slaves.

[DrDeth]

@RickJay

Washington wasn’t assassinated but he’s adored.

It is difficult to envision how Lincoln would not have been a better President than Andrew Johnson was, and his legend was effectively already written by the time he died; everything else would have been icing. Reconstruction, which was not the horrible imposition on the South the apologists would have you believe, would have been more quickly and effectively implemented. I’ve no doubt at all he’d be revered today.

Yes. Lincoln would not have the added cachet of being a martyr, but still up there with Teddy, George, Thomas, etc.
I still think he’d be on Mt Rushmore.

[DrDeth]

@WillFarnaby

Lincoln’s legacy would tarnished with scandal. From his imprisonment of thousands of dissidents, his arrest of a member of congress, and his consideration of the arrest of Justice Taney, to his crony railroad deals, support of the Illinois Black Codes and Corwin amendment, and refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession, Lincoln was a pretty rotten guy. Not a guy you’d build a temple to for tourists to warble hosannas at his feet.

The Taney issue , the thing that never happened?:dubious::rolleyes:

Taney Arrest Warrant

And Lincoln didnt support the Corwin amendment, he simply didnt oppose it, hoping it would stave off secession.

Of course Lincolns refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession was one of his greatest acts,

[Little_Nemo]

@WillFarnaby

This reminds me of the infamous declaration by Madeline Albright that the tens of thousands of Iraqi children who died as a result of Clinton-era sanctions was “worth it”.

Your disapproval doesn’t cause me any concern.

[WillFarnaby]

@Bridget_Burke

I don’t consider the situations identical.

Also, you really need to drop that “compassion” act. It’s doesn’t suit you.

I don’t consider the situations identical either, but such ridiculous pronouncements from two people who lost nothing about situations where many people lost so much do seem a bit tasteless.

@CarnalK

So as a libertarian, you’re saying a peaceful secession would have been worth leaving millions of people in chains? That’s odd. I would have thought stopping slavery would be one of the things a libertarian would accept as a proper function of government.

Peaceful secession would have led to abolition. See Brazilian quilombos.

@RickJay

If I am not mistaken Will advocates the (preposterous) idea that the Union could have bought all the slaves.

You’re mistaken.

@DrDeth

The Taney issue , the thing that never happened?:dubious::rolleyes:
Taney Arrest Warrant - Wikipedia

And Lincoln didnt support the Corwin amendment, he simply didnt oppose it, hoping it would stave off secession.

Of course Lincolns refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession was one of his greatest acts,

Remember, his refusal to negotiate a peaceful secession led to great death, military occupation, and lingering resentment and violence toward Blacks.

Lincoln had “no objection” to making the Corwin amendment “express and irrevocable” and also sent a letter the governors of the states making them aware of the amendment.

I’ll dig up the stuff on the Taney situation. The “issue” definitely happened according to 3 sources, though there doesn’t seem to be evidence that the warrant was ever issued.

@Little_Nemo

Your disapproval doesn’t cause me any concern.

I recognize the things that don’t cause you concern, they wouldn’t cause concern to Madeline Albright either.

[iiandyiiii]

@WillFarnaby

Peaceful secession would have led to abolition.

So you say. Somehow I don’t find your assertion convincing, considering the actions of so many Southern whites for the century following the Civil War. I think it’s possible a successful secession would have led to an attempted genocide.

[Buck_Godot]

There would be a CVS (or equivalent) where Ford’s Theater currently stands.

[CarnalK]

@WillFarnaby

Peaceful secession would have led to abolition. See Brazilian quilombos.

Umm, what? Abolition would probably eventually have happened but it sure as hell wouldn’t be because the South was peacefully allowed to form a country with slavery written into their constitution. The notion is ridiculous and citing the existence escaped slave communities in Brazil as evidence of that notion is frankly bizarre.

[WillFarnaby]

Yes, referencing a contemporary abolition and suggesting similarity is bizarre. That’s because the US is the Exceptional Nation.

[WillFarnaby]

@iiandyiiii

So you say. Somehow I don’t find your assertion convincing, considering the actions of so many Southern whites for the century following the Civil War. I think it’s possible a successful secession would have led to an attempted genocide.

Where did something like that happen? What is the logic behind this bit of science fiction?

[CarnalK]

@WillFarnaby

Yes, referencing a contemporary abolition and suggesting similarity is bizarre. That’s because the US is the Exceptional Nation.

Then maybe you should have said "see Brazilian abolition " rather than referencing escaped slave settlements that were around hundreds of years before abolition and were usually attacked and destroyed.

[WillFarnaby]

@CarnalK

Then maybe you should have said "see Brazilian abolition " rather than referencing escaped slave settlements that were around hundreds of years before abolition and were usually attacked and destroyed.

Bizarrely, many abolitionists thought Northern secession would have been helpful to their cause.

[iiandyiiii]

@WillFarnaby

Where did something like that happen? What is the logic behind this bit of science fiction?

There have been numerous genocides and attempted genocides through human history. Considering the popularity of the KKK in the decades after the Civil War, I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that a large number of white Southerners either would have tolerated or actively supported an attempted genocide of black people, had slavery survived (and subsequently rebelled with material support from Northerners and abolitionist).

[MEBuckner]

@WillFarnaby

Yes, referencing a contemporary abolition and suggesting similarity is bizarre. That’s because the US is the Exceptional Nation.

More like the CSA would have been an Exceptional Nation. What with having been explicitly founded on the principles of white supremacy and black slavery.