Yes, we need to heal and move forward. And the first step in healing the wounds is to drain the abscesses and sterilize them. We didn’t do that after the Civil War, and the result is that we’re still fighting that same damned war 150 years later. We didn’t do that after Watergate, and the result is corruption has gotten worse than ever. Let’s finally start draining the wounds, so we can get on with the healing.
I hope they start by investigating Bill Barr. If it turns out he did nothing criminal, that’s fine, but make him feel the heat of his blowback.
If he tried to ban Fox news the other networks would probably also get ticked off since they don’t want to set a precedent. CNN,ABC, CBS, etc. don’t want to get banned by the next GOP president.
My feelings on the matter: SCORCHED FUCKING EARTH
I know that’s not really going to work to solve the deep DEEP problems we have in this country. Every day, however, that I want to try and conceive of the ‘right way forward,’ HE comes up with yet another stunt that makes me irrational all over again. All I can say at this point is that I’m glad I’m not in charge of making the country better, because I would surely fail us all. All I can do is hold onto my little vote (blue in a sea of red).
It seems like every time someone here suggests the Dems do something bold, someone will reply “Can’t do that, because the GOP will turn around and do it worse when they’re back in power.” (I’m probably guilty of this myself.) But we ought to consider two things:
- The GOP will do worse, anyway.
- If it’s the right thing to do, we should do it. Maybe it will help set things right so the GOP can’t do worse the next time. Maybe it will stop there being a GOP the next time.
Maybe it won’t. I agree that it isn’t going to be easy, but I still think its the only viable path forward. If the investigations into the malfeasance of Trump administration is done by partisans in a partisan manner for the purposes of punishing the enemy, there will be no chance to reach the 40% of the country who identify with Trump as an aggrieved party whose way of life is under attack by the Liberal elite. They will just be proof that they are right about Liberals, label it all as partisan lies, and dig in further.
There are three ways that the partisan war of left vs right can be resolved. 1) domination/dictatorship in which where one side forces their opponent into submission, and powerlessness. 2) civil war in which the two sides of the country go their separate ways 3) reunion in which the two sides manage to come back together to a point where while they may not agree at least they can work together to achieve goals for the common good.
Of these only option 3 leaves Democracy as we know it intact. This requires that a substantial portion of the right, reject Trumpism in a way that allows them to save face, and join the rest of us. It will not be achieved through the left’s emulation of Trump’s hyper-partisanship.
I agree that Option 3 is the only one we should be hoping for, but disagree that criminal investigations can’t get us there. I don’t assume that investigations undertaken by Biden’s DOJ will be done “by partisans in a partisan manner for the purposes of punishing the enemy.”
Yes, they will at first be largely Democrats, but the purpose won’t be to punish the enemy but to reveal the depth of criminality in which this administration has likely engaged. If it can be proven, as a hypothetical example, that Jared Kushner ordered seizures of state PPE orders so he could turn around and sell them to higher bidders, I imagine many erstwhile Republicans may find themselves less resistant to helping pursue further prosecutions.
As to that 40% … they have two choices. Wake up to reality, or start pounding sand as a dwindling, increasingly ignored fringe minority.
There should be massive and totally transparent investigations, such that the American people learn every last bad thing Trump and co did, in great detail. If that reveals clearly criminal conduct, then prosecute.
Yes. The Fox News crowd will of course scream “partisan witchhunt,” but the more shit that comes out the less credible they’ll sound. The last four years they’ve had Trump’s DOJ muddying the waters, but without that distraction the truth should inevitably start to win out.
Yes. Make it clear that the crimes of this administration are in a class by themselves. This isn’t “everybody does it”. Start off with anything that can be proven about trump’s pre-presidential days. Maybe have a special commission to investigate. Part of me says put Hillary in charge of it. I recognize that probably wouldn’t fly, but the irony alone is irresistible.
We need the next administration to fix all the damage the current administration is doing/has done. That will be a full-time job. In the meanwhile, they should just let the courts deal with Individual-ONE’s crimes against, well, everything.
Oh, and tear that wall down. I want him to see it fall while he is still alive.
I think an exhaustive RICO investigation of the Trump Organization would be in order. And forensic accountants from the SEC and IRS should be let loose. And someone’s passport (Bless his heart) should be yanked the moment someone else takes a certain oath.
Possibly not criminal charges, but certainly if the Democrats have the numbers in Congress impeach every member of the administration who merits it, to make sure they never get office again.
(Then, for God’s sake, pass legislation to eliminate the incredible numbers of political appointments in government administration. As a non-American, I am flabbergasted at the degree to which the US federal government retains political appointments down to very low levels in departments and agencies.)
There is no reaching them, Buck.
I told you all a while ago that the only way we can “reach” them or “make them see the light” is for them to live in their own shithouse, and even then, only a fraction will ‘get it’. Some will ride over the cliff til the bitter end.
But like I was saying before, people need to see and feel the consequences of their votes. When I said that it might actually do some good for people in the heartland to get some coronavirus, I was pilloried for it, but guess what? It’s happening now, and support for Trumpism is at an all-time low.
That’s why I’ve said, don’t get mad at me for posting that I want Trump voters (and frankly, the apathetic “I don’t give a shit” independents and non-voters, too) to feel the consequences of their voting behavior. I really, really wish we, as a society, were smarter and more collectively informed and responsible than we are, but we’re not. So if suffering is the only the way that the message gets across, then I suppose that’s what we’re left with.
The sad (and dangerous) post-script is that this kind civic engagement (or lack of it) and this kind of democracy…is not sustainable.
This ^.
In addition, it will be critical to reverse the damage done to the once-independent judiciary. Read: it will be crucial to win not just the White House, but the House and the Senate as well. The Democrats will also need to win the Senate by enough of a margin so that “democrats” like Joe Manchin can’t fuck things up the way that “Democrats” like Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus did in 2009-10, which is no small feat but it’s just as important.
Again, this is why I want some corona carnage. Maybe I don’t want it so much as I believe that some good can come from it (wish it didn’t require this extreme, actually). You can call me messed up or a sociopath, but it just seems that there is no other way that people are going to get it. It seems that only a sufficient level of self-inflicted carnage and self-awareness will drive home the message to voters that the entire Republican party is a bunch of know-nothing, corrupt scumbags, and that they are to be treated like Nazis and traitorous neo-confederates.
So yeah, we need a landslide as the product of collective outrage. And if we can get that result, then we have to remake the judiciary, the DoJ, and a host of other institutions. It’s a long shot and a lot of damn work ahead.
They could impeach the Devil as a GOP member and they won’t get 67 votes to get rid of him.
I received this in the 5 minute fix daily email from the Washington Post (I couldn’t find it on the paper’s website):
Byline Amber Philips
Could Trump be indicted when he’s out of office?
I get this question all the time. Technically, yes. Only sitting presidents are generally accepted to be immune from criminal charges, per a Justice Department policy. But is it likely?
On one hand, former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen named the president as a co-conspirator in efforts to pay women hush money during the campaign, which violated campaign finance laws. But indicting a former president would be an extremely politically divisive thing to do.
There’s a reason you don’t hear any Democratic leaders calling for Trump to be investigated when he leaves office. If they win in November, they’d rather focus on their agenda than keep the nation focused on Trump. Any prosecutor who tried would probably be going it alone. (The next president could also pardon him of any federal crimes.)
I think there’s a very good chance that a new attorney general would probably investigate Trump’s fake business empire like a motherfucker and shut that shit down once and for all – that I could absolutely see. Why investigate Trump himself when you can just go after his giant scam and shut it down? It would probably be just as devastating as locking him up.
Save criminal prosecution for his enablers.
That’s why I was asking about Federal forfeiture laws. Seize every last thing trump owns as part of a RICO investigation. Jail every single subordinate, and charge Barr and a few others with Treason and hang the fuckers as an example to the rest.
Problem is, if he pulls a KenLay and snuffs it right before sentencing, his conviction would be vacated and his family would just keep all the stuff. On the other hand, if enough civil suits get thrown at him, nothing gets vacated, and the standard of prevalence for the plaintiffs is much lower.