I am referring to Jesse’s 1984 run for president. He has also been thought of as a candidate on other occasions.
I think Duke may have been a state legislator at some time (or at least run for the office). Nothing beyond that.
I am aware that the Million Man March was not a general referendum on Farrakhan’s ideas. But the fact that he was able to get so much support for his call to anything is an indicator of his leadership position in the black community. to test this out, I suggest that you call for your own march. You will notice that no one will come. This is because you, though you seem to be a fine person, are not a leader of the stature of Farrakhan. People follow leaders.
biggirl
It would appear from your post that you are unfamiliar with the distinction between all and many. You might wish to acquaint yourself with this crucial difference. It comes up all the time…
I personally don’t see a lot wrong with what Jesse Jackson does. I certainly don’t see anything wrong with someone who might support him or his views on certain issues. I’d imagine that some people support him all the time and some choose to support him when they agree. Some don’t support him at all because they don’t appreciate his tactics. Yeah, he’s over the top most of the time. Is he anti-white, I don’t even think that, he’s anti-bigoted or blinders wearing white. I know he pisses people off. But it’s come to my attention that almost any outspoken black whether they are a little bit on the radical side or not will piss off a certain segment of white guys. Lets face it the black community needs to keep the pot stirred up. Colin Powell just isn’t doing it for them. He panders to much to the good old boy whitey guys that allowed him to get where he is today. And they won’t even let him have his view on AA without criticizing him. They expect him to roll over a play white completely. So barring that someone comes along with the charisma, the intellegence, and genuine class that MLK had Jessie Jackson and those similar to him is the best the black community has got right now. You see black people have not enjoyed the freedoms they’ve gained in the last 30 years by asking nicely. If they had kept asking nicely they wouldn’t have been anywhere. They will always have to shout and demand and rally for what they get. Just reading the bullshit on these boards is proof of that.
N2K, you are a racist. Do you really believe Colin Powell was handed his position, not because of his merits, but because he “panders”? The mind boggles. I hate to break it to you, but there exist Republican black americans who believe in conservative values. If you think Powell is backward on race issues, I suggest you read his autobiography and discover the racism and discrimination he had to face during his career in the military.
Many white Americans admire Colin Powell precisely because
he has achieved much in his life without handouts or demanding anything but his due of respect as a human being and an American.
No, I do not believe he was handed his position of course not. What I do believe is that without Affirmative Action iniciatives in the government and the men and women who went before him Colin Powell would never have had the opportunity to be a general. And I think he knows that. I’m not criticizing Colin Powell I’m criticizing members of his party and others that don’t like to hear his stand on AA. I’m glad that he sticks to his guns on this issue. I hope he never caves in. But if you think for one minute that he or any other black leader in this country would have gotten where they are today without standing up and screaming, marching, and demanding their rights then you’re wrong. After all aren’t gays beginning to do exactly that themselves. Don’t the anti-gay and even some who profess not be be anti-gay dislike hearing about your problems? Of course they do. Sometimes I have trouble getting my main point across in writing.
What I’m saying is that in some ways the black community needs a guy like Jessie Jackson, over the top and all. He brings attention to issues whether you like his style or not. Then of course men like Colin Powell balance out the rest. Too bad though that leaders like MLK seem to only come along once in a lifetime.
Did you come up with the bullshit all by your lil’ ole’ bitty self or did you get some help? Who the fuck are you to say that Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakan and Al Sharpton speak for the ‘vast majority of the Black community’?
No one speaks for the vast majority of the Black community just as no one speaks for the vast majority of the White, Asian, Jewish or other community, you dumb-ass.
Yes, there is a distinction between the word all and the word many. But when you make blanket statements about representatives for the ‘vast majority of the Black community’ you come off sounding mighty asinine.
Oh yeah and you can all me anything you like. It no longer bothers me being called a bigot because usually the people that do so haven’t gotten in touch with their own feelings on issues of race relations, homosexuality and our other differences. I know where I stand. I’m fully aware of the privledges I enjoy in this country simply because my skin is light. Of course I’m also fully aware of the hinderances and inequities that I must endure because I do not possess a penis.
Oh yeah and I also forgot…9% of the African Americans that went to the polls voted Republican. I just don’t find that figure very overwhelming. And yes, panders was a very bad choice of words. So sue me.
Again, I recommend that you read Colin Powell’s autobiography. In it, he describes the hard work he put in and the goals he has achieved despite the prejudice he faced in his life. I called you a bigot because you wrote, " What I do believe is that without Affirmative Action initiatives in the government and the men and women who went before him Colin Powell would never have had the opportunity to be a general." That sounds to me like you’re saying he was handed his job because of his race and not because he deserved it.
Martin Luther King never screamed. He lived a life of quiet dignity, giving soul-stirring speeches and insisting on the recongnition of rights due black Americans as citizens and human beings.
Let’s see, I’m gay, so I’m sure I’m in touch with my feelings on homosexuality, and I work for a black-owned comapny and my boss is black, with whom I’ve talked about these very issues, so I’m pretty sure I’m OK there. I call you a bigot because you are a liberal racist. You’re one of those people who overcompensate, who try too hard to be nice to black people because of past injustices.
I like people on their merits and dislike them because they’re jerks. I feel no need to identify with black Americans or to say, “I understand your struggle, brother.” That’s condescending and racist. I treat the differences between races as I do the differences in hair color; that is
being a blonde or a redhead is an interesting feature, but it has nothing to do with your qualities as a human being. To quote Divine in Pink Flamingos, “There are two kinds of people in the world: my kind and assholes.” (That’s a joke, by the way.)
Is there discrimination in this country? Absolutely. Racism, sexism, and homophobia do exist. The way to fight them is to be the kind of person you would admire yourself, and eventually through the force of dignity, pride, and honor, you will win out over hatred.
Black people voted Democrat for the same reason I did; a)Bush is a moron, and b) despite his window dressing at the convention, Bush’s speaking at Bob Jones University and refusal to speak out against the Rebel flag flying over the South Carolina statehouse spoke louder than trotting out Condi Rice.
Farrakhan is a spoken for the Nation of Islam or some, such. He’s also been under fire from that organization. Because he called for a march for unity and people thought that was a great idea, does not in itself make him a leader. It means for a change, he was right. You may have noticed that nearly every time he made an ass backwards comment on race relation other leaders such as the NAACP immediately denounced him. In fact, as I remember, there was a tiff just for that reason, when organizing the MM march.
Oh and FYI, I can an have indeed led rallys. Most recently here in Oakland, me and a couple of other neighbors I know called a Stop the Violence rally here. (I mentioned this in another post btw) and while I didn’t get a million marchers, we got enough to make the news.
BTW, more FYI Duke was a member of the Louisiana House of Representatives (at that time he was a member of NAAWP, an organization he founded when it became known he was a member/leader of the Klan)
goboy While I agree with most of your post, I wanted to bring something to your attention. The Military does have a Quasi-affirmative Action program that has been in effect since at least the 70’s. While it’s also based on merits (i.e., you have to be qualified to move up) the Services do in fact try to promote diversity in it’s upper ranks. For this reason, before you go to the promotion boards, you must submit a photo in addition to your service record for consideration.
And it would appear from your post that you are unfamiliar with the distinction between spokesperson, elected official and media-whore. You might wish to acquaint yourself with these crucial differences. It comes up all the time, you putz.
I haven’t checked on Colin Powell because he is a conservative and a Republican and I’m just not either. But I guess since he’s a new appointee I might look into his background a little more.
And I have no idea how my statement about AA iniciatives diminishes the accomplishments of present day minorities. Don’t you think that is stretching it a little. No, I never suggested that Colin Powell or anyone similar to him didn’t work for what they’ve achieved. What I did say is that I believe he just might be fully aware of what his life might have been like had the Equal Rights ammendment never been passed or the government not taken the first iniciative to enact Affirmative Action goals. You see, I am one of the few people that actually believes that many qualified minorities were held back and are still being held back in our society by a transparent “white wall”.
There you go calling me names again. A liberal racists I am. Wow that’s at least a little better than being just a simple racist. I don’t see how it is that it makes me racist to realize, actually see first hand how whites resent blacks, jews, gays and other minorities. Years ago I worked for the federal government. I was young, early twenties. My boss nominated me to a part time position as an EEO counselor. I was selected. I got a really good look at that glass ceiling. And yeah, buddy I can relate a little. I’m a woman. Statistically I still don’t make the same amount of money as a man for doing the same work. You may be gay but you are still a man. It’s only been about 10 or so years since my local government decided it wasn’t an OK thing for my SO to kick my ass. Yeah, I do relate because women and children, black and white are most often the victims of economic and societal oppression not just in this country but thoughout the world. But that’s about as far as it goes. And my convictions about this are not based on some liberal racist bullshit tenent. They are based on seeing my friends and co-workers passed over for better jobs. Of seeing them treated differently when we go out to lunch. Of being stared at myself because I’m the only white face at the lunch counter.
I know my heart and I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me where I stand. I may not be as educated or as eloquent as you but at least I’m not afraid to say what I think is right. Assume all you want.
That was a response to StuffinB’s post, not yours.
Umm, the ERA had to do with gender discrimination, and it went down to defeat in 1982. Are you talking about the 13th (forbidding slavery), 14th (assuring citizenship for ex-slaves), and the 15th (assuring voting rights) Amendments to the Constitution? Or are you talking about the Voting Act of 1965, which ended poll taxes and literacy tests?
A. Jews are white, and I’m gay and I’m white (well, half anyway), so I don’t get your meaning.
B. No, what makes you racist is your repeated insistence that blacks need the help of whites to succeed.
There are other posts that are older than 30 days I can’t access. My point is that when act as if blacks need special help to succeed, you are being just as racist as when you discriminate against them. Black Americans do not need your help or your guidance. When you are treating people differently on the base of race, that makes you a racist. That’s not namecalling, that is a statement of fact.
In addition, stop playing victim. If you’re not being paid an equal amount to a man in your company in the same position, find a better job. Work hard and if you’re being discriminated against, find redress from management or sue their pants off.
I mean, look at Oprah. Born a poor, black woman, was she got handed her wealth by white people, or did she work her ass off? Look at my mom. Widowed at 21 with no education and three kids, then remarried to a drunk and abusive monster, she survived, raised her children, now four in number, got her BS, then her nursing degree. she didn’t sit on her ass and cry about how tough life is, she tackled the obstacles and overcame them.
Stop playing victim. Oh, and don’t post any more self-pitying “I may not be as educated or as eloquent as you”; if it bothers you, go to a library or a community college in your area and get educated.
The fact that millions of people pay attention when a person speaks makes him a leader. The fact that issues that he raises are for this reason dwelt opon by others makes him a leader. Farrakhan is an important black leader in this country. Which is not to say that there are not other important black leaders and organizations which disagree with some of his actions and statements. But he does have a large following.
I should clarify, upon further reflection, that the idea of a person being a leader does not mean that he has been “authorized” to be a “spokesman” for his constituency, or that every word that comes out of his mouth reflects the officially sanctioned view of his constituency. In responding to this notion, you may have been confronting a strawman. Rather the idea is that the fact that these people see this person as their leader reflects the fact that on the whole, this person’s actions and opinions are looked at as being positive ones. As such, one might reasonably infer that for the majority of black people in this country the activities and opinions of Jesse Jackson are viewed in a positive light, as are, to a lesser extent, those of Farrakhan and Sharpeton.
A few very rambling observations…(prepare for the thread to fall over and die):
PC idiocies are just as damaging as outright bigotry; they’re the same critter in different clothing. They make a huge point of differences. A well-meaning professor (who was a breath of fresh air, taken in all) always carefully asked the few female students for their viewpoint. After a while it became a joke; not a funny joke, but it got us by, e.g. “well, as a female…” WTF?! The issues were human! The niceness of being recognized couldn’t disguise the insult. The goal wasn’t to be singled out, just to be included on merit.
(Not comparing experiences, just illustrating, btw.)
One of the flat-out finest, hardworking, honorable, moral human beings of my acquaintance recently went to DC to interview for a job. Very irrelevantly, said friend is a black male. He was late for the interview because no cabbie would pick him up..
Just based on the color of his skin; nothing more.
Statistics and debates become ludicrous. This was a great, stupid, offensive, insulting wrong.
Period. Full stop.
You bet I’m a supporter of affirmative action. It guarentees a chance, nothing more. I’m not a Christian–too ecclectic–but do embrace the great truth behind the prayer, “Thank you, Lord, for blessings I’ve done nothing to deserve.”
My dad, an unrepentant bigot, didn’t finish high school; the Depression hit and the school closed. He had to turn down a scholarship to Vanderbilt in engineering, but found a stable job working for AT&T. None of those things would have happened if his skin had been black.
I’m proud of my dad, and I loved him. But that doesn’t change that every detail of my youthful life hinged on our skin color. And everything I’ve built since is based on it as well, too.
This isn’t “liberal guilt”. It’s commonsense recognition of facts. (BTW, my peeve w/ “conservatives” is they too often blandly accept privileges as birthrights and degrade principles along the way. Conservatism isn’t–or shouldn’t be–hubris.)
Sorry, I really rambled all over the landscape on this one.
Just to touch on the Ebonics subject for a moment. I believe the problem some people (including myself) have with ebonics is that it smelled of a pork barrell scam. By classifying a portion of students in the Oakland School District as “English second language” students (the primary language would be Ebonics), the School District would become eligible for an increase in its federal education grant. The issue of teaching teachers Ebonics was (IMHO) FAR less important than the funding issue. My question regarding the Ebonics issue is whether the administration in the Oakland School District gave a single crap about the education of those Ebonics-speaking children. My albeit pessimistic opinion is that the School District was far more concerned about the bottom line $.
I would like everyone to note that this does not mean I don’t think there is some validity to the theory of Ebonics. The theory may very well help certain cases of speech impediments and other like afflictions within the African American community. However, I truly question the motives of the Oakland School District.