If $ =/= important explain capitalism

Many jobs offer survival wages. I personally could survive on a full time job of $9/hr, which is only slightly more than minimum wage. I couldn’t afford health insurance (maybe I could, but it would be hard since I have pre-existing conditions and would need to join an expensive high risk pool) but I could have a car, place to live, food, entertainment, basic medical care, etc. I couldn’t afford kids either. But I could easily live the lifestyle I lived in college and still have money left over for savings.

So the floor for survival is fairly easy. After that it is a matter of personal opinion and taste. Some people like schedule flexibility, some like meaning in work, some want income, some want nice benefits, etc.

For me personally I would take enjoyable work, schedule flexibility and benefits (paid vacations, decent health care) over higher wages. That may change if I decide to have kids but I’d rather earn 40k at a job with good coworkers, benefits and decent free time vs. earning 70k at a job with shitty coworkers, poor benefits, tons of stress and no free time.

Supposedly that is partly why the hippie movement was born in the 1960s, the boomer generation was the first one where survival was all but guaranteed, and people could focus on other needs and wants instead. If you didn’t like being a hippie, you could find a factory job that paid a living wage and let you raise a family. The security of knowing survival is all but guaranteed gives people freedom.

I know from personal experience of being unemployed that having a place to go where you are needed is important to (at least my own) mental health irrelevant of the income and money.

If the only reason to work is to get money, how is the SDMB able to recruit moderators?

Regards,
Shodan

True, but if what you do doesn’t pay enough to make a living, you starve.

It’s a trade off. I shocked a client of a client a few years ago by saying that I mostly liked what was I was doing, but I was doing it only for the money. I can think of much more fun things to do than work. Work is social, but it’s not a friendly relationship. I’m lucky that I can do things I mostly enjoy doing - thing that might even be stimulating and refreshing - and make a living, but that’s it. If I didn’t HAVE to work to make a living, there’s plenty of stimulating and and enjoyable stuff I could do instead that I might enjoy more.

The marketing deals?

People were not saying anything like that. What people were saying was that they went to work for the purpose of doing a job and getting paid. So they see most team building exercises as pointless wastes of time.

You were the one claiming they were supposed to be fun and people should be enjoying themselves at work. So I guess you should be asking yourself why you think a job is supposed to be fun.

It’s the heady rush of official secrets and the exercise of petty tyranny.

Oh, and they get a coffee mug.

If that’s the impression my POV in those threads left you, I’m sorry. I feel the EXACT OPPOSITE! I thought my other posts in those threads made that clear.

So it’s like running for Congress, except with a mug.

Regards,
Shodan

Your naive assertions in the other thread, specifically, that:

  1. Team-building is a useful learning experience, instead of a costly game that employers use to humiliate and infantilize workers, while wasting their time.
  2. The only options available to workers are “bend over and don’t complain on an anonymous message board” or “quit”.
    Led me to think that your OP here would be a similar combination straw-man argument/false dichotomy. However, you have a something of a point, although it is expressed in your characteristically stark, either/or fashion. To be clear, I am only talking about big company, Corporate America-type work environments here, and I’m not suggesting that nobody is motivated by job fulfillment.

The idea that every job should provide satisfaction, meaning, or fulfilment to every worker, in addition to traditional compensation looks like it is part of a system of cynical manipulation seemingly deliberately constructed by HR and management in order to reduce payroll and turnover. The asymmetrical power structure in traditional businesses, with a small number of people holding near absolute power over the majority, usually requires those in power to have means to coerce desired performance from their subordinates. However, the traditional forms coercion can be ineffective (reprimands), or of the sledgehammer as a flyswatter variety (termination). Middle of the road coercion, such as poor performance reviews that lead to low bonuses or being passed over for a promotion, can also be counterproductive, because it tends to increase worker dissatisfaction, leading to increased turnover. Rewards, such as bonuses and raises tend to be effective in the short-term, but can also also lead to dissatisfaction when next year’s bonus isn’t as big as was expected. They also cost money.

If you keep telling people that job fulfillment is typical for everybody, not just a lucky minority, they start to believe it, like any other propaganda. The beauty of the myth of is that is entirely internal. It can be decreed as natural law by the employer-“Everybody should get fulfillment from their work! If you don’t, there’s something wrong with you!”, and has to be uncritically accepted by the worker, who bears all responsibility for making it happen. Responsibility for morale problems that may be caused by poor management or external forces (like poor market conditions) can be shifted to workers; if someone is not happy most of the time it is their own fault for not finding fulfillment. It can also help suppress workers natural unwillingness to work extra hours or accept smaller or nonexistent raises and bonuses-“It’s not about the money! Aren’t we lucky to be able to spend another weekend in such a great office!”

By cultivating a relatively small number of ‘true believers’ who unquestioningly love everything about the company, the system can tap into the in-group/out-group mentality, in order to pressure non-confroming workers into ‘faking it’ in order to avoid social isolation. This can create a feedback loop, where damn near everybody has a phony smile plastered on their face, which is just fine as far as HR is concerned.

By promoting the idea of personal satisfaction as a sort of intangible compensation, a company gains a new set of tools for manipulating workers that is less overt, potentially more effective, and fairly cheap. From an employer’s perspective convincing people to convince themselves to settle for less is very nearly something for nothing.

Is it ethical to confuse people with regard to what they actually want in order to get them to believe that their desires align with what you are willing to give, which is nothing tangible? I think it’s fucking abhorrent, but it’s part of the deal if you want a salary. As others have said, the best way to motivate people is probably some variation of: give them useful work, respect, and a share of the rewards.

I think the point that isn’t being addressed is that it has somehow become taboo to discuss money. Everyone is supposed to be working because they love it. It is IMHO a symptom of most companies being run by a class of people who largely grew up without having to worry about money (but yet are very conscious about having it).

They get 20 bucks a warning and 50 for a banning?

My standard fee is $25 per sock, for those moderators interested in a little spending money.

If you really think most companies could even begin to plan something this detailed and nefarious, you need to stop watching James Bond movies.