This is an individual preference. I have heard other instructors doing this as well. Personally though, I think it is a respect thing. Additionally, I work at a small enough school where my largest class has 50 students. I have never been inundated with emails saying someone would be late.
Angel of the Lord - My school has no religious affiliation. Oh and there are several private liberal arts colleges at 41 degrees north. 
There are students of mine on the boards. Last year I saw a student with the SDMB shirt on. I of course did not say anything to them about it, in my opinion that may be a conflict of interest.
True, but mine has an honor code. In my experience, that isn’t all that common. But phew.
Some honor codes are implied, this is true. Of the schools I know of in New Enlgand that are private Lib Arts schools, more than 60% have honor codes. To come to my school, you must sign it to attend. If you don’t want to sign it, then we have a long list of standby’s who will
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mearl Dox *
** This semester I have one teacher who’s told me she’s doing me a favor when I turned in a paper a week late (it’s not a favor when the law SAYS this is what you do for me), demanded proof of my illness (which is none of her business and illegal besides) and otherwise made it clear she’s sure I’m faking it.
I’m not 100% positive, but I think that most of your statements are incorrect. Having taught in the Ivy League, a state school, a community college, a technical college, a high school, and a for-profit school, we were ALWAYS allowed to require proof for excused absences. The schools often even have forms for medical absences. This included students who had recognized conditions requiring extra help. Additionally, we never simply take the student’s word for having a special-considerations condition; there must always be proof.
Yes, you get the extra help IF and ONLY IF the need for help was because of the condition. I know that one of my students with ADD/ADHD and depression missed a week of classes because she was boinking a new boyfriend–she told me. That is not excusable absences. Maybe you’ll have to educate this prof a bit, maybe you’ll have ot keep on educating profs. It’s not fair to you. But it’s not fair to expect that they will just take a student’s word for absences after awhile. We all get burned, a lot, by the “phantom student.” If you want to be believed that a medical condition is the problem and not lack of effort, bring in the proof. You ARE going to a doctor, aren’t you? With your description of your condidition, I sure hope you are!
If I may elaborate on Bucky’s post. The idea of bringing in a note from an M.D. or the clinic at your university is a way to make some students be honest. I have had students email me or call my office saying they are sick and not attend class with out providing me a note.
The situation is student specific. Some students who routinely skip, and are always making up lame excuses do not get this same treatment. If they are sick for a mandatory class, then they must provide a note. No note, then when they take the quizz late it will be docked. This is clearly written in the syllabus.
For the students who don’t skip a lot, and are relatively good students, they do in fact get a little leniency - however, these students usually are the ones who bring in a note.
Sound unfair? So is getting to take a test late and thinking you won’t be docked for it.
** Phlosphr **, part time faculty at a state college checking in with 2 cents here…I empathize with your thoughts in this thread.
I teach a class with a lecture & a lab. Texts printed for the subject quickly become out of date, so there is only recommended reading. All of the course material is given out in lecture or lab.
At points in the semester, there is not enough lab time/space for the amount of students who need to use it. Sometimes we have hardware/software issues in the lab. So sometimes due dates get extended, but only for those issues.
We are not allowed to grade on attendance. I tried the “we’re all adults here…” thing with the students. It didn’t work. Now I give a short, timed quiz at the beginning of class. It’s a gimme. It’s open notes. But it gets their butts in class on time, and they try to pay attention & take notes during class.
My Dept. Chair told me to put ‘no extra credit’ in the syllabus, but then always offer it near the end of semester. The students who care usually take it. The ones who don’t care and are failing, well they earn their grade, too.
I tell them on the first day of class that the dates for the mid term & final are firm. I don’t get paid enough to make up tests, or grade projects/papers after end of semester.
School is a little different now than when I was in college. Most of my students work a day job to support their schoolwork, as do I. Many of my students have families, as do I. So sometimes I have to be mindful of that. Like you, I can usually tell the students who are ‘lame’ from the ones who have genuine confilcts.
Yow, this thread has inspired a lurker to finally do my first post! Can I have extra credit for doing this?
This very topic has been very much on my mind the past few weeks. I’m attending a community college, taking a couple of prereq’s for grad school, one of which is SOC 101 (not sure how I finished my B.A. without ever taking the class almost everyone takes as a freshman, but hey). This is a weekend college course, and lots of nontraditional/working students take the class. Therefore, I understand that this will be a slightly different animal than a traditional course … I know people will miss class if kids are sick, etc.
But attendance is TERRIBLE! I tried really hard to block it out, thinking “hey, who cares what they do, I’ll just enjoy the class and get everything I can out of it.” But then last Saturday, class time came and went … and it was just me and the prof (out of a class of about 15). To her credit she kept a positive face and said, “well, you and I will have a delightful class”. I appreciated this on a philosophical level … screw them, right? … but it was damned uncomfortable being lectured to all by myself. I just couldn’t shake the “on the spot” feeling. When a second person finally arrived half an hour late, I wanted to spring from my chair and give him a welcoming hug, I was so relieved.
To me, this goes beyond a situation I can just blow off. It has really hurt my experience in the class … it was distracting, and we obviously couldn’t have the kind of discussion you really need to have in a class like Sociology. Plus even when people were there, often they would come in 30-45 minutes late … again really distracting, especially when it happens several times every class. No exaggeration. I wish people had a better concept that their actions DO affect others.
My prof was more on the “coddling” side I think … sending out online announcements basically begging people to check in, reminding people about the attendance policy in the syllabus, encouraging people in major hot water to drop so she doesn’t have to flunk them, and so on. And constantly offering extra credit opportunities, not conditional on attendance. I have to admit this irks me, because I am working my butt off for this class, and I DON’T want someone making no visible effort to get as good a grade as me just because they threw together a movie review or something at the end of the semester.
I did speak with her about this … hey, it’s Sociology, so it’s pretty relevant to the course material. Apparently she has talked to colleagues on our campus and this is a major problem in lots of classes/departments this semester, even on other campuses in the area … much more than in the past. She even has some students enrolled and paid who have never shown up, sent her an email, or anything. We never did figure out in our speculation why this would be.
BUT, the bottom line is, I would much rather a professor make and enforce a strict attendance policy. I wish that wasn’t what it takes, but I’m thinking it is. Even that may not work, but there needs to be the message/atmosphere that it does matter, IMHO.
Mearl Dox, my university has an Office of Social Equity through which requests for special accommodation must be filed. They require physician’s certification (including the specific medical condition), a list of specific accommodations that the student might need, such as early scheduling, test-taking assistance, note-taking assistance, special furniture, etc. They also reserve the right to request medical records from the student that describe the condition and treatment.
In other words, the university can and will request medical information if the student requests special services. The student’s instructors are then notified of this so they can comply. It is a two-way street in that the student is expected to keep the university notified of any changes needed, such as if an accommodation is no longer needed.
Robin
I’ve taught freshman university classes for several years as a grad student, and I have NEVER had a semester where this DIDN’T happen. There are always at least one or two students who are no shows throughout the entire semester; I never hear a thing from them. It’s a mystery to me, too.
BTW, welcome to the boards, Admiral Ackbar!
The school of course requires proof, and I was required to bring copies of my medical records and papers from my doctor. That’s what I mean when I say I was working with the office for disabilities: I mean I’ve been officially recognized as disabled. The office then makes a list of special needs I’ll have, and the needs I have are attendance requirements waived and more flexible due dates.
But individual professors aren’t required or even allowed to ask what my condition is. It isn’t printed on any of the papers I was given by the office to give to them, and in the packet describing my ‘rights’ given to me by the office, it clearly states that I am not required to discuss with anyone but the office for students with disabilities what my illness is. I don’t mind talking to professors about exactly what my problem is, and I’ve told her. Maybe that was a mistake–Crohn’s disease can vary a lot between people, and one person might not have a flareup for years, whereas I tend to have two a semester, and pretty severe ones.
I always write e-mail or call my professors if I’m going to miss class, although not for every individual class, because I’m going to be sick for usually two or more weeks when I’m having a flareup. I then e-mail them or call them again after I’m getting ready to come back to class, asking them what I’ll need to do to catch up with the class. I’ll work double time to catch up, study with other students, and usually turn in my work from the past couple of weeks in the first week I’m healthy again. But turning them in on time while I was sick will not be an option, because usually I’m too sick to possibly write a paper, or even leave the house. I do try to work ahead, and that helps to a degree, but sometimes my Crohn’s will flare up two weeks before a paper is due, and I’ll be getting my remicade infusion (it helps me recover quickly, but I can only get it every 8 weeks) the day it’s due.
After I had my first flareup this semester, I called the professor the week before my remicade infusion and she didn’t respond. So I called a few days before the infusion, still no response. All of my other professors have been very helpful in letting me know what will be expected of me to keep up with the class. So the day of my infusion she calls me, and tells me she wants proof of my illness (um, the sheet from the disabilities office that I gave you?) and that I won’t be allowed to turn in my paper late, even though I’d been trying to talk to her about it since before the paper’s due date. Finally she agrees to let me turn the paper in late, I come to the next class with the paper and otherwise caught up with all reading and studying, and she’s changed the syllabus the same day she called me and added new work. And won’t let me turn it in. Even though she called me the same day to talk about what I’d need to do. I’d have had the stupid new paper done if she’d just told me to write it! Argh! I ended up doing a different ‘extra credit’ paper to make up for it, but it’s still frustrating. Although I admit it’s paranoid, I almost feel that she added the new paper just to spite me.
I need help, the same way a blind student or a deaf student might need special help. I cannot attend school on the same basis as another student. This isn’t a situation of getting a doctor’s note for a bunch of blown-off classes here and there, this is a situation of me missing two weeks of school straight because I’ve been too ill to leave the house, or because I’ve been placed in the hospital again. I did end up bringing papers from the emergency room and from the infusion clinic the last time I came back from a flareup, but it’s frustrating to me, and I feel I shouldn’t have to deal with this hassle from her.
I just dug out the pamphlet I was given, and the phrasing used that I’m thinking of was the responsibility of the college to “protect the student’s right to privacy and confidentiality.” I don’t mind telling the teacher, like I said, but it made me angry that she was trying to force me to prove my illness even more (what do you want, stool samples?), and in a very threatening and suspicious tone of voice.
I’d also like to add that I realize some classes are simply impossible to pass without regular attendance, even with the teacher and student both doing their best to find compromise. I dropped one class this semester when I realized it would be too incompatible with me. I really don’t want to harrass the teacher or make things any harder for him or her than I have to. And most of the time, I get along perfectly well with my professors. It’s just this one woman.
My, I’m defensive today. Here’s a quote from the website about faculty:
“Faculty do not have the right to refuse to provide required accommodations, to question whether the disability exists when accommodations have been authorized by SSD, or to request to examine the student’s documentation.” SSD is Services for Students with Disabilities, it’s the office that’s in charge of that sort of thing.
Thanks, Cabbage!
And since this is the Pit, I can say this to my classmates for next weekend when they all actually show up (pretty sure they will, since she’s giving the final that day) …
BASTARDS! I blow my nose at you!!!
That felt gooooood.
Admiral - Welcome. I promise I will have much more to day tomorrow, however right now Mrs.Phlosphr is preparing Enchilatas from scratch and I must show for supper…
I will ask one Q that hopfully you can answer to further this discussion: What state are you in? Thats it.
Reason for asking: Federal legislation impending upon stae run community colleges may change situations similar to yours…more to come soon.
Again welcome! You appear to be someone who will offer much insight and constructive conversation to these boards…
excuse my spelling - my daily delirium usually starts now…
Mearl Dox,
Sounds as if the professor in question is acting like an ass. You’ve provided the necessary documentation from Disabilities Services (or whatever it’s called at your college/university). I don’t see why she would need to ask you about your condition.
Where I teach, if a student comes to me with the paperwork from Student Disabilities, it will tell us specifically what we are required to do to accomodate the student. Maybe in the paperwork you gave to the aforementioned professor didn’t specifically state the accomodations to give (such as "student may turn in assignments after due dates’ or “student may request extensions on assignments or exams”). If the accomodations are specific, then the instructor has to comply. In fact, we are required to have as part of our syllabus a statement that says we have to accomodate student’s with disabilities - provided, of course, that they provide us with the proper paperwork from Student Disability Services.
Well, I suppose the instructor doesn’t have to - but then, I’m sure there are procedures in place where you go to school to bring a formal complaint to the department chair, dean, etc.
Mearl Dox, after your explanation, it seems like you have done what you should do. Now, just post this ass-prof’s email address for us and we’ll have a crack at her.
Okay, seriously, DO report her if you can’t get her to see reason. At the least, she needs help in her teaching.
I am a bit unclear on that profs cannot " request to examine the student’s documentation." How would I know if the claim is legit without examining the documentation?
I was given a sheet of paper for each of my classes by the office, which stated my needs (and in my case, it did specifically state both the attendance and the due date flexibility), and that’s what I show the teacher. But the decision if my claim is legit belongs to the disabilities office, not each professor. I imagine if she thinks I’m abusing it, she can talk to the office herself–but she hasn’t done that, she’s just tried to bully me.
I’ve seriously thought about reporting her, too. But the class is almost over, and my grade will still be a low A or high B. It’s mostly just been a hassle.
Bucky,
The claim is legit if the student went through the proper channels at the college/university (Student Disabilities Services). Student Disabilities have the trained personnel to determine/judge whether the student’s claims for accomodation have merit or not. If they do, they may ask the student to perform certain tasks, or request meidical information from an approved physician. Once a determination of a disability has been established, then it’s just a matter of informing the people who need to know (the professors). This is usually done with a form letter indicating that the student requires accomodation (there’s usually a list of items that the student can have accomodations for - such as having more time to take on exams).
I don’t think a professor can legally ask a student the reason for the accomodation (or provide proof) - IANAL, so I don’t know (but I highly doubt it). The instructor MAY ask for some kind proof explaining why a student missed a class, but if it is covered in the documentation provided to the instructor (i.e. “student may be absent from class stemming from condition”) then the instructor can’t ask for additional proof.
If a professor has a problem with the above, they they need to contact Student Disabilities Services. Thus, it’s an internal issue, not one that should be between the student and the professor.
(Where I teach, the documentation that Student Disabilities gives us regarding a particular student’s need for accomodation is signed, and a copy is returned to Disabilties Services. I know, and Disabilities Services knows that I know about the accomodations required for the student).
There may be problems that arise regarding what the accomodations are, but those should be spelled out explicitly on the paperwork given to the professor by Disabilities Services. If there are problems - again, these need to be addressed between the professor and Disabilities Services.
Mearl unfortunatley reporting this prof. would probably not get much in the way of positive energy for you, and would most likely turn into a hassle. Finish out the semester on whatever wave you are riding now and let it be. There is no winning or losing when it comes to bullheaded profs. Most of us are quite open minded, however, there are the occasional few who take the power and status and try and use it for their own insignificant sense of self and id. In my opinion she is demonstrating poor show and will most likely continue to until she is confronted by someone of authority…
Regarding students with disabilities, I write in clear english - checked by my illustrious wife as everyone knows I am horrible with grammar and spelling, must be the ADD - Anyway, it is written in clear english and it states: Students with disabilities must have a note into me before the end of the first academic week stating special needs and circumstances they require. Accompanied by documentation from student services.
Most students do this to some degree. There are a few that lag…
The most difficult cases to me are the ones where students use their disabilities to manipulate the system, or as an illegitimate crutch. Here are a few anecdotes of pro’s and cons I have dealt with:
A student came to me Freshman year. Stating that he had severe ADD. He had proper documentation, list of meds etc…etc… I noticed he was on Dexidrine spansule. This is a particularly effective medication as it is time released and does not have the dramatic ups and downs of say ritalin.
I also noticed that he was asking for untimed exams. I did not have a particularly adverse reaction to this, but I it did get me wondering. If he is on a spansule capsule, why does he need untimed tests when he will be sufficiently medicated during said exam at 10a.m.
I called him into my office and asked his academic advisor to be there as well. I confronted the freshman - who was not used to a teacher being so concerned. I aske dthe student if he would give it a try, to try and take a times test with all the other students etc…etc…
He was immediately on the defensive about this and essentially crawled into his shell. Stating that he had taken the SAT untimes, and all tests in highschool untimed do to his disability.
Disability, hmmm. I thought this a curious statement and asked him further what he meant. As an adult with Attention Deficit Disorder, and a professor of psychology, I was particularly interested in his response. Apparently, his mother was treating him as someone with a ‘mental problem’, or someone who must be in special education classes. When in fact he was a perfectly normal young man. ADD is not schizophrenia, it is not something that will impede normal neurological growth when properly monitored and understood.
We discussed this a little further and his academic advisor concured with what I was asking of the young man. He agreed in the end to trying to take the test. To his surprise he finished before other students and was amazed at his own abilities.
My point is, some students use their disabilities in productive ways, and others use them as a crutch. Unless stated in the syllabus early on, this can be a huge problem for some profs. Mearl seems to be on the correct track, yet dealing with adversity from the opposite end, from the teacher. I think profs can curb the dark side of mid-semester problems by thinking of their syllabi as a contract…I have even seen some profs have the syllabus signed before the first quizz.