[QUOTE=Apos]
No Sapo. Your account of the discussion I already engaged in: that it didn’t take the theology on its own terms, is dishonest. I’m not picking my battles: I’m refusing to start a new argument based on a false premise about the old one. Sorry.
[/QUOTE]
as you were, then
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
And to continue the analogy, as far as I’m concerned, I and other atheists are saying “You idiots ! Haven’t you heard about all the people who died from food poisoning here ?!” Religion isn’t harmless stupidity; it’s an immensely destructive force.
[/QUOTE]
It is not religion that is destructive. It is intolerance. And intolerance is exactly what you are up to, here.
[QUOTE=Mayo Speaks!]
Jesus was sent to Earth to serve as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. He could have saved Himself, but He chose to allow Himself to be sacrificed to save us. John 3:16 and all of that.
I am a Christian, and this is what I believe.
EDIT: By “us” above, I mean humanity.
[/QUOTE]
I always find it so funny when Christians (or Muslims or whoever) quote their holy book to prove that they are right. 
Just like Mayo quoting John 3:16. 
It never seems to occur to them that their reasoning is circular and tautological.
Jesus was the Son of God.
How do we know?
It says so here in the Bible!
How do I know I can believe that Bible?
Because it is the word of God!
How do I know it is the word of God?
Because it says it is the word of God right here in the Bible!
How do I know I can believe that Bible?
Because it is the word of God!
How do I know it is the word of God?
Because it says it is the word of God right here in the Bible!
♫ Forever, and ever,♫ halleluja, halleluja♪ ♫
The trouble with the OP is that it asks why Jesus did not bother to close up the holes rather than dripping blood all over people’s clean homes when he appeared to them.
I have no idea if the OP is religious or not. But the problem is that to people like me who have no belief in religion, it is impossible to answer such a question because ALL of it is nonsense anyhow. It is like asking why Frodo did or did not do something rather than something else in Lord of the Rings.
The short answer is that the whole thing is a product of a human imagination and that simply is the way J.R.R. Tolkein wrote it.
By the way, the next time a Christian or Mulsim or Mormon claims that their holy book could not possibly have just sprouted from an individual’s human being’s imagination, ask them the directions to Middle Earth. 
Valteron, would you kindly show me where either of the claims you are setting out to refute have been made in this thread?
[QUOTE=Valteron]
<snip>
I have no idea if the OP is religious or not. But the problem is that to people like me who have no belief in religion, it is impossible to answer such a question because ALL of it is nonsense anyhow. It is like asking why Frodo did or did not do something rather than something else in Lord of the Rings.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
No offense, but this is kind of a weird thing to say in a thread like this. If you find the question impossible to answer, why would you try to answer it?
If someone wanted to know something about nuclear physics, I wouldn’t go into a thread and say, “to people like me who know nothing about nuclear physics, it is impossible to answer such a question because ALL of it is nonsense, anyhow.” Yes, it is nonsense to me (meaning that I can’t make sense of it), but that doesn’t mean that it’s nonsense to everyone…so why would you even get involved in trying to answer the question?
Does anyone really think that if they come in the thread and say “it’s all nonsense, you know,” that the OP will say, OHHH! It’s all nonsense? Never mind, then."
I notice that no one has yet commented on, to pick one, Polycarp’s response at Post #32.
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
Wrong.
It’s evil people who invoke their “religion” that are immensely destructive and they are no different than evil people who do not invoke any religion that are just as capable.
[/quote]
Wrong. Religion demands evil, irrational behavior. It is a motivation for evil and/or stupid behavior that non religious people lack.
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
A religion, specified in book form sitting in a library somewhere in Cucamonga, California is not evil in itself, it is the evil person who picks it up, reads it, and uses it as a tool/reason for committing atrocities.
[/QUOTE]
No. People do not use religion. Religion uses them. Religion is the psychological version of a virus; it infects people and turns them into tools for it’s own replication. In my opinion, to the extent people become religious, they lose their humanity and become the puppets of whatever religion has infected them.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Religion has been a immense constructive force through out history. Much of what remains of societies have religious significance.
OTHO nuclear science is an immensely destructive force
[/QUOTE]
Nuclear science has done many good things, and unlike religion it’s just a tool; it makes no demands, provides no motivations. I see no evidence that religion has been “immensely constructive”, and the destruction it has caused outweighs any good I can imagine.
[QUOTE=Sapo]
It is not religion that is destructive. It is intolerance.
[/QUOTE]
Religion is intolerant by nature.
I notice once again the double standard people have towards religion. We are supposed to give religion credit for anything good done by anyone even slightly religious, but it’s unthinkable for anyone to blame religion for anything. It doesn’t matter if it says in that religion’s dogma that you should do awful things; it doesn’t matter if the people who do those things say they are doing so in God’s name; a religion cannot ever be held to blame.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
I have no idea if the OP is religious or not. But the problem is that to people like me who have no belief in religion, it is impossible to answer such a question because ALL of it is nonsense anyhow. It is like asking why Frodo did or did not do something rather than something else in Lord of the Rings.
[/QUOTE]
Given that it’s impossible for you to answer the question, show me where anyone insisted that you were being required to answer it. Most people can take as read that if you consider X an imaginary being, you can have no opinion on why X did or did not do such and such.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Wrong. Religion demands evil, irrational behavior. It is a motivation for evil and/or stupid behavior that non religious people lack.
No. People do not use religion. Religion uses them. Religion is the psychological version of a virus; it infects people and turns them into tools for it’s own replication. In my opinion, to the extent people become religious, they lose their humanity and become the puppets of whatever religion has infected them.
Nuclear science has done many good things, and unlike religion it’s just a tool; it makes no demands, provides no motivations. I see no evidence that religion has been “immensely constructive”, and the destruction it has caused outweighs any good I can imagine.
Religion is intolerant by nature.
I notice once again the double standard people have towards religion. We are supposed to give religion credit for anything good done by anyone even slightly religious, but it’s unthinkable for anyone to blame religion for anything. It doesn’t matter if it says in that religion’s dogma that you should do awful things; it doesn’t matter if the people who do those things say they are doing so in God’s name; a religion cannot ever be held to blame.
[/QUOTE]
There may be some people who use their religion to justify evil acts but it is not what their religion teaches them but their mis-interpetation of their dogma.
In some cases religion keeps people from doing wrong things and even though I am not a religious person I can understand why people believe their certain beliefs; it does help them to go through difficult times. Because it doesn’t help me it doesn’t make them ignorant or evil in my mind.
Monavis
[QUOTE=monavis]
There may be some people who use their religion to justify evil acts but it is not what their religion teaches them but their mis-interpetation of their dogma.
[/QUOTE]
When the koran says to kill unbelievers in defense of their faith and the followers then go out and do that how is that a misinterpretation on their part? When the bible says to burn witches and homosexuals, how is that a misinterpretation? Is it the word of god or isn’t it? Is there a time limit on the bad things in those books so that the current believer knows which parts to follow and which parts to ignore? And if parts of the book are now obsolete and should be ignored then why doesn’t the omnipotent and omniscient god let us know that? Why does he leave obscure passages in HIS book that allows people to go out and do, what most of us consider, evil in HIS name?
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Wrong. Religion demands evil, irrational behavior. It is a motivation for evil and/or stupid behavior that non religious people lack.
[/QUOTE]
With earlier post when I stated ‘it is hard for the non-believer to understand (Christian) morality’ and you stated that it is not morality, and your quoted post, I stand by my statement that it is still something you don’t understand.
Note on the above, I added ‘Christian’ to my earlier post, which is what I was thinking when I posted it, but didn’t type it then.
As pointed out above, people, are the ones who provide the motivation, and people can be motivated by good or evil intentions.
Ever hear the 4th verse of the Star Spangled Banner?
Religion was a major motivation in the formation of our free country and a model for the modern world, contrary to what the revisionist want people to believe.
Not to mention the creativity that came from religion, from art to architecture.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Religion was a major motivation in the formation of our free country and a model for the modern world, contrary to what the revisionist want people to believe.
[/QUOTE]
I thought it was the Greeks who gave us the idea for democracy and such things. They believed in Zeus. Why don’t you believe in Zeus?
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
King James Bible, Leviticus 20:13
And I will dash them one against each other, the fathers and the sons, says the Lord. I will not pity or spare or have compassion, that I should not destroy them.
Jeremiah 13:14
Originally Posted by kanicbird
Religion was a major motivation in the formation of our free country and a model for the modern world, contrary to what the revisionist want people to believe.
It was freedom from religions oppressive influence that was the motivating factor as I recall.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Then why didn’t he heal his crucifixion wounds after he rose from the dead? Yeah, I know he wasn’t planning on hanging around long, but I can’t imagine that it’d be much fun to walk around with freakin’ holes in your feet!
[/QUOTE]
I take issue with the implied premise: Every man wants to walk around in a fun way; Jesus was a man; therefore, Jesus wanted to walk around in a fun way.
[QUOTE=Uzi]
I thought it was the Greeks who gave us the idea for democracy and such things. They believed in Zeus. Why don’t you believe in Zeus?
[/QUOTE]
Actually I do believe in Zeus, and also again religion gave democracy, so you proved my point.
I’m not sure of yoru point Nic2004, but here’s my counter about nuclear science:
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
Actually I do believe in Zeus…
[/QUOTE]
Really?
Do you mean you believe that the being the Greeks worshipped as Zeus was actually, unbeknownst to them, the Christian God?
This thread will shortly be arriving in Cuba. Please return your seats to the upright position and fasten your seat belts…
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Do you mean you believe that the being the Greeks worshipped as Zeus was actually, unbeknownst to them, the Christian God?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe in Zeus as The God, but a lesser ‘god’ so to speak, or a demon, part of Satan’s clan. Before the flood, it seems like these things not only roamed the earth but bread with humans, producing some weird powerful creatures.
[QUOTE=Genesis 6:4]
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
[/QUOTE]
And hence :
[QUOTE=Exodus 20]
Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3"You shall have no other gods before Me.
4"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
[/QUOTE]
-NASV
Which seems to indicate that there are other ‘gods’ of some form.
[QUOTE=kanicbird]
bread with humans
[/QUOTE]
Yum.