Oh Shodan, for shame. It was barely a month ago that you started a Pit thread about this right-wing scare meme that Farrakhan called Obama “the Messiah” in a speech last February. And I went to the trouble in that thread of looking up what Farrakhan actually said, and clarifying it for you. Here are the relevant parts of the speech from the “Final Call” (NOI) website:
I’m no admirer of Farrakhan, but if you bother to find out what he actually said instead of salivating over a few seconds’ clip on YouTube, it is crystal clear that he is not actually identifying Obama as the Messiah. He thinks that Obama has emerged as a “herald” of the Messiah, and that his success is a sign that “the Messiah is speaking”, but he is very definite that Obama himself is not the Messiah.
After I did the work of researching and explaining this on the other thread, you stormed off in a tantrum:
And now you come in here trying to resurrect the same debunked ignorance and spread it around again, with no acknowledgement that you were shown to be wrong the first time. Honestly Shodan, I’m disappointed in you. You’re basically just trolling here.
So, saying that Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah is so radically different from saying that he is the Messiah?
Given that you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about as regards the concept of the Messiah in Islam, I give rather less weight to your opinion than I might.
I don’t think that’s what the right means when they trot out the “Messiah” line. They mean that the left treats him with adulation of the “He’s going to fix everything”/“He makes me excited to be a Democrat”/“I’m in love with him” variety. In other words, they’re making fun of his more enthusiastic supporters for being so irrationally excited about an obviously (to them) unqualified person.
Shodan: The left calls Obama a messiah. My evidence is that Farrakhan called Obama the Messiah. Kimstu: No, Farrakhan didn’t do that, as I’ve already told you. Shodan: But other people did!
I guess it’s like asking whether Mormons are Christians – they say they are, but practically all other self-ID’d Christians deny it. Protestants and Catholics can recognize each other as Christians, nowadays, but Mormons are still beyond the pale.
Your version of the thread is not inconsistent with the snippet I summarized. The point was that, however relevant your post might have been in response to the OP, you did not address Kimstu’s post at all.
The difference is even more radical than LDS. It’s more like the equivalent of Christian Identity.
In any case, NOI is not part of the religion of Islam. NOI has a separate theology, a separate prophet. They don’t practice the Pillars and they’re not allowed into Mecca.
Oops, I should have known that, but overlooked it. Sorry tom, sorry Shodan.
But Farrakhan didn’t say that “Obama speaks with the voice of the Messiah”. He said that Obama is definitely not the Messiah.
:dubious: And you feel that your own understanding of Islam and its soteriological doctrines is better? You can’t even be bothered to find out the difference between Nation of Islam and Islam proper, or to read the actual statements of a speaker that clearly contradict your claims about what he’s saying. Why should anyone give any weight to your opinion on this issue? You can’t even get your facts right.
That is, the involvement of the young people is a sign that “the Messiah is speaking”. Not a word there about Obama himself being “the Messiah who is speaking”.
It’s like saying, for example, “we are seeing the hand of God in the success of Obama’s campaign”. Nobody with any sense would think that such a phrase was meant to imply that Obama himself is actually God.
Face it, you were careless in finding out the complete facts about the Farrakhan speech, you forgot or ignored the facts I found out for you about it earlier, and now you’re trying to wriggle out of having got it wrong. It’s not working.