What was even more annoying about that is that Jadzia was killed off by Dukat shortly thereafter. Her death as it was was pointless, but killing her in that episode would have made her death mean something, and also would have given Worf, as an honorable Klingon, ample opportunity to show that the mission is more important.
Yes you’re right, that’s what I was getting at. You put it better. I didn’t think Worf would put his own interests above the job. Or that he would not be punished for it.
It seems people have no room for multiple types of sci-fi series these days. Most of the suggestions here aim to make Trek more like BSG, B5, or Firefly. I don’t understand why, when those series already exist(ed), and do what they do well. Trek is different, always has been. That’s not to say you can’t change things up a bit; that’s what DS9 did, and did well, of course. But even DS9 retained the core of what makes Trek Trek. You can’t gut that core and still call it Star Trek.
And however many missteps Braga and Berman took, they never lost sight of that core Trek-ness. They may have slipped a few times, but right up to the last episode of Enterprise, it was a still a program that fit well into the existing mythos.
We will see if J. J. Abrams can do the same.
Powers &8^]
Well, he was reprimanded for essentially killing a Presidential candidate in a knife fight.
Bad Worf, bad!
I mean I know that Starfleet is not singularly a military organisation, but they rarely seem to enforce any of their own regulations, especially in war situations, or involving the Prime Directive. Remember that episode when the Enterprise found the starship that Riker had first served on? The one with the experimental (although illegal) phased cloak that would give them a huge advantage in any combat? And they use it to escape a trap, then tell the Romulans all about it? I know the treaty between them outlawed this, but you’d think theyd’ just not tell anyone they had it. Might have come in handy against the Borg or the Dominion I’d imagine.
IIRC, Sisko was far less sanguine about it, but it was wartime and they needed every living body in uniform (to the point that a cadet could be pressed into service and finish the war a lieutenant). Sisko basically told Worf “Forget about ever getting promoted ever again”.
I get it. But if I remember the episode clearly, the mission was supposed to be extremely important, you know, very valuable info that could save a lot of lives and help in the war etc. Even then, Worf abandons the mission to get Dax to a doctor. I know it’s his wife. But I can’t see how in wartime that would fly no matter how desperate the situation. I recall how even in the last days of Nazi Germany disobeying orders or abandoning your post would lead to a firing squad. Sorry I can’t give a cite it was in one of Anthony Beevor’s books, Berlin I think.
And all Worf gets is ‘don’t even THINK of trying for promotion again’. OH NOES!. To be make myself clearer, it’s one thing in the entire series that kind of got to me. In any series there would usually come a situation where the captain or first officer or chief engineer would disobey a direct order on moral principles. And yet would never get punished. I don’t think getting confined to quarters would be such a hardship in the 24th century. Naval discipline is very harsh, I have a couple of relatives in the Navy (Irish Navy, but still). Disregarding an order is always serious.
Another thing, if it was such a dire situation in the Federation, why not bring in conscription? That could have been a good story arc to explore.
Finding Serenity: Anti-Heroes, Lost Shepherds and Space Hookers in Joss Whedon’s Firefly is an essay collection. Some good, some bad–but “Mirror/Mirror: A Parody” was worth the price of the collection. Imagine “the brilliant characters of Firefly encountering a positronic-based anomalous nanite singularity with reversed polarity, and being magically swapped out with their approximate equivalents on Enterprise.”
Hey, here it is!
The problem is…well, bad writing, really. And a tendency to make starfleet look like a bunch of pussies. You can disobey orders, even to the point of endangering other people, and get a slap on the wrist. Heck, on top of the comfy ship where everything can be had by saying *“Computer, I’d like a T-Bone Steak with all the trimming, two baked potatoes, a pint of guiness and some fuzzy slippers”, *you can take your FAMILY…wife/husband, kids, etc. *
That would be interesting…since everytime we see Earth (which is a paradise, according to Captain Sisko) the population seems completely unable to put up any kind of a fight. In the 2 part episode where an Admiral used Martial Law it caused pandemonium.** Maybe the aftermath of the Dominion War, and the borg threat…let alone the romulans and other races that can be dangerous, Starfleet starts falling back on a more Kirk-like way of doing things. Draft people, use a big stick, etc. if you don’t like it, move to Risa, kind of thing.
Also in that episode why the hell was the federation President in charge of earth? Why is starfleet pulling martial law? There aren’t any civilian law enforcement agencies? It makes little sense. If it were up to me, federation HQ would be on a nuetral planet, and Starfleet would not be the be-all and end all of planetary security.
- Thats been a peeve of mine from TNG upwards. You know, I damn sure wouldn’t take my family on a starship. Its such a stupid concept I can barely believe anyone watching thought it was a good idea. I’d rather miss my family until I take leave than have them blasted by Klingons, assimilated by the borg, pushed through a wormhole to God knows Where, etc. Plus you need facilities on the ship to accomodate them. teachers, employment of some kind, etc. Argh…I’m sure it made the fan boys happy, but its a dumb idea and a punk move by the creators.
** Along with the family thing, the idea that earth is a paradise, no war, everyone has a home, possessions, etc, no one works for money is ridiculous. The only thing I can accept is no racism between humans on earth. because if you live in a world where there are hundreds of non human races around I can buy that as humans we’d be less inclined to prejudge each other due to religion/color/etc.
Think about it…you might have a job now doing what you’ve always wanted to do. But would you do it for free?
So having said all that has annoyed you about past Trek incarnations, what have been the key ingredients you’ve liked?
What makes it Trek other than the name?
I could swear there was once a thread taking that exploring the concept of exploring the Federation’s place in the Gamma quadrant in the aftermath of the Dominion’s fall. Various races vieing for power both on their own planets and elsewhere as the ruthless but stable order of Dominion is suddenly gone. The Dominion was ruthless but they exerted control; now the Gamma quadrant is up for grabs and the Federation was ill-prepared for dealing with the anarchy that resulted. Lots is worse for various species than it was under the Dominion. The potential for thinly veiled political commentary is obvious and those were always part of the fun. (Iraq after toppling Sadaam; the former USSR after its collapse and before Russia’s resurgence; so on). But also lots of potential for moral ambiguity, bad decisions made with staff conflict and with consequences, and a DS9 sort of respect for religions’ places in various worlds.
A Trek show needs to have a character exploring their human side - running from it, denying it, coming to grips with it, desirous of it … some variation of that theme if even as a joke.
You need a babe in a cat suit. Just because it is Trek.
You need a sense of humor every so often.
And yeah, you need some optimism about the future even in a dark universe - that is part of being Trek.
Star TreK: Iraq. 
In that vaguely remembered thread the obvious analogy was to the break up of the USSR and history stated back up again with various smaller countries fighting again but the times have changed since then.
Am I the only one who remembers that thread?
Well, this has changed. When I was a wee lad, I liked the new planets, the spiffy clean everything, and Picard. In short, Star Trek’s utopian elements. And I still have a great fondness in my heart for these - especially for the super-advanced civilizations with stone-age stylings. Mmmm… space Aztecs…
Unfortunately, while those things are very appealing, they don’t exactly make for the most satisfying stories. They’re good, soul-warming fluff and all, but now I’m much more a fan of DS9’s forays into realism - ambiguous situations, consequences, all that.
Now, the problem is, it’s hard to reconcile the two. DS9 had a period in the middle where they switched back and forth between ‘explorer’ and ‘soldier’ mode, and it didn’t work terribly well. Every time they’d go find a new, weird planet, I’d think, ‘don’t you guys have something better to do? There’s a war on!’.
Ultimately, I have to say that a big part of what makes Star Trek so good is nostalgia - I grew up on that shit, man! So, I’d love to see a new, well-done Star Trek, just because I know and love the universe, and I have fond memories. But, having seen a few TOS episodes lately - man, not high quality at ALL. So, please, keep the universe, keep that tinge of utopia in the background - but keep it background. I want my foreground a little more realistic, thanks. I think that’s why DS9 did it for me - they had that ‘we’re defending the Federation’ vibe, while still having some nasty situations, and FAR more character development. I grew much more attached to more of the characters than I did TNG’s, because I watched them go through a war, go into exile, get hurt and sometimes die, which TNG didn’t do nearly as much. But, the occasional trip back to Earth kept it anchored in that warm, fuzzy, Federation goodness I grew up on, and made the war that much more horrific.
So, what I’d love to see is a more political, realistic treatment of the universe I love so much. Keep the way-too-good-to-be-true Federation, keep the silly, rubber-forehead aliens. Then show me that no, not everyone lives like that. There are also the Maquis, and the Bajorans, and the Cardassians. Show me that there’s more out there than what we’ve seen. Show me that this is a REAL WORLD. Show me the political infighting, the hard choices, the nasty side effects. And for the love of god, show me the horrible effects of reversing the polarity all the goddamn time. That CAN’T be good for the circuits.
Funny, I thought TOS did that already, maybe I was paying too much attention for once.
Besides, if you really want to get bogged down in politics, there’s B5 for you. If you want to see everything fall apart, you’ve got NuBSG.
One of the most interesting episodes of ST:TNG was “Below Decks.”
We follow four junior officers, who have tiny pieces of the overall puzzle: the nurse, the security chick, the engineer, the ops guy. They’re not in command, they don’t have full power over the ship.
That would make a fascinating show, in my opinion. You could watch the characters develop relationships; one gets promoted and has to give orders to his frends, one gets in trouble, one is transferred to a different duty post. Two of them together have a failed affair and thereafter don’t work well together.
Yeah, it could have some soap-opera elements to it; that’s a danger. On the other hand, giving the characters some real human interactions could also broaden the show’s appeal.
These are the people who should be going on the routine away teams: the grunts, the security personnel, the nurses, the lowbies. The ones with something to prove. The captain and the command crew could be rarely seen, once every few episodes (like the recurring police lieutenant on any prime-time cop show).
Over time they get into battles. They build a history. They could be promoted up the ranks. Some of them could die. The last season one of them makes captain. No more of this “listen to Picard tell you a story about how he once, 20 years ago, fought some Naussigans over a damjat game,” but watch the junior officers doing it. Show, don’t tell.
Star Trek meets E!
Keeping up with the Cardassians
Let me add one:
- No conveniently re-inventing new backstory details every episode. No long-lost half-brothers who are incredibly important but that somehow we never heard about before.
Heh. Well, okay, but give it to me without Greek gods and planets full of mobsters. To be honest, I’ve only seen a few episodes of TOS, and while I can appreciate the cheese on some level, the writing was pretty awful. WAY too much plot-induced stupidity for me to really get into it.
One more thing: the Earth centered and human dominated nature of the Federation always bugged me as unrealistic for a mutli-galaxy Federation of many species. How about another thinly veiled political commentary in having humans deal with a Federation that is increasingly less centered around them and their interests?
^I’d always fan wanked that away as having only the humans and Vulcans aware of how important the whole thing was, so they were the only ones going up into space in appreciable numbers. The other races that we see at Federation get togethers are unwilling to risk anything more than their money in putting star ships up there.