There you guys go, putting your faith in polls over votes again…
The exit polls are conducted by professionals with pride in their craft and by some miracle are amazingly accurate except for key precincts in battleground states. The votes are tabulated by hacks who have an interest in the result, who have a hackable system, and who stonewalled efforts to have a paper trail on the black boxes. I personally will choose the pros over the hacks every time.
Holy crap, I was being somewhat facetious, but you really do put more faith in the exit polls than the certified election results? Thanks for the laugh!
I really do. This is a sad commentary on the state of the American voting system. The exit polls are indeed more accurate. Until we fix the election system, it will be this way. Why else are the exit polls accurate everywhere except where Rove needed to tweak the ballots?
I was under the impression that the whole “exit poll out of line with results” thing had been debunked. Regardless, I do know for a fact that in my neck of the woods, exit polls are seen as about two steps below telemarketing. Folks hope to get caught by somebody taking an exit poll so they can “fuck with’em.” As Doyel Hargrave would say, “I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s the damn truth.”
Having this knowledge, forgive me if I giggle at the notion of trusting an exit poll even marginally.
Jammer
It must be very frustrating for you to believe this - that this election was stolen by hackers and the proof is in the exit polls, undiscovered by even the army of lawyers the Democrats had on the ground ready to contest results.
I have faith that there are more than a few investigative reporters poring over every possibility of fraud. The story may not completely break for a year or two or even more, but when it does- it will make Watergate look like Sunday school. They may have stolen the election, but when the truth comes out it will destroy the credibility of the Republicans. Between this and the fiasco in Iraq, Bush will be the last Republican president in my lifetime.
The results of the 2000 election shows clearly that putting out faith in ANYTHING done by a state with a Repub administration is equivalent to dropping trou and bending over.
Only they don’t grease you up first.
BobLibDem, you keep making this accusation about the optical scan ballots. But that’s just silly, since the optical scan ballots still exist! You do understand that these are paper ballots with little fill-in bubbles, like on the standardized tests they give in school? And that the paper ballots still exist? And that if the scanners were hacked, it would be trivial to discover the hack simply by recounting the ballots by hand?
This ignores the fact that in the South many people are registered as Democrats but vote Republican in presidential elections, for reasons that should be obvious if you know anything about the history of the Civil War, reconstruction, Jim Crow, and the Civil Rights movement.
In any case, why didn’t the army of lawyers the Democratic party had on standby step in to challange these irregularities? Why did John Kerry concede after only a day of waiting for results? Is the Democratic Party part of the conspiracy too?
Here’s an article from Salon, you’ll need to sit through an ad to see the content:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/11/10/voting/index.html.
Oh, and Kanicbird? Can you please stop with these silly threads, the grownups are trying to argue about the election.
Yep. All true. But in order for such count to occur, the state must be forced to do it. Who can force a recount, I don’t know. But while we were focused on the black boxes, the optical scans were rigged. A misdirection, a sleight of hand. A hand recount should be easy and I’m convinced that if done, Kerry wins Florida and the White House.
And you’re willing to back this conviction up with… what?
Since I can’t collect on the bet without being dead, it would be a foolish one to make.
cos unless we heard about it, they didn’t happen, right?
What makes you think the conventional media wanted Kerry to win? Doesn’t look that way to me. And why do you think that reports of poll results could influence election results? Seems unlikely to me.
I recently read that in Germany, they use paper ballots, and take two weeks to count them. But they know who won the day after the election, from their very accurate exit polls. Cite:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1104-38.htm
The Ultimate Felony Against Democracy
Thom Hartmann
This word has exploded onto the scene within the last couple of weeks.
From what I can tell, it was coined by Richard Dawkins (though it has older roots), so it can’t be very old. Someone used it on TV or somewhere in pop-culture recenty. It’s the only explanation for such a large and sudden boom.
I’ve been seeing it around the 'net consistently for longer than that. I think it’s spread on the web- I can’t imagine it being used on TV.
There’s been a site called memepool for a few years now. That’s the earliest I encountered meme as its own word, and not just a root.
This makes no sense. Unless what happened? You need evidence to start an investigation.
I’m a big Kerry supporter, and I’m pissed at the way the election turned out, but the idea that the Republicans (or any political party) could pull off any serious, directed, election fraud with so many people involved and so many people watching this election like a hawk, and have no one break the story is absurd.