If there is a God - Meh.

[John_Mace]

I can sympathize with the OP quite a bit. Not that I worry about it much, if at all, but whenever anyone asks: What if it turns out there IS a God? Well, “meh” is about as good an answer as any.

[Apos]

Just because Daddy has to beat you sometimes for your own good doesn’t mean that Daddy doesn’t love you honey.

[Latro]

@Apos

Just because Daddy has to beat you sometimes for your own good doesn’t mean that Daddy doesn’t love you honey.

It becomes a different kind of ‘love’ when Daddy will beat the crap out of honey for the comming seven years just because honey took a cookie from the jar he himself left open on the floor.

[monavis]

@Lobsang

I strongly believe there isn’t. But a couple of factors (the fact that I am amongst a significant minority. The fact that there seem to exist intelligent people who believe. The fact that even though there are different religions, moreso as you go further back in time, however they share an idea - that there is one or more creators.) make me question my own objectivity on the subject.

If there turns out to be a God. I adopt the ‘meh’ position. I.e. I don’t really care. You [God] (assuming for the sake of this statement that you ever existed) created a being which is capable of denying your existence. If by some warped plan you decided that all of those you created who refused to believe in you should be condemned to an eternity of suffering then who am I, a mere sinful imperfect human, to try to argue my case. If I should go to Hell then fuckit. send me there.

In my belief, The word God, just means,being,or what ever exists.The Old Testment has Moses asking God, who are you? The response was,I am what is. For me all existance every where is what God is. God ,accorcing Judeo-Christian beliefs, is every where. The psalmist says even if I go to hell you are there. In order to be really every where God would have to be everything. I ask if God always was, then the place where He is, also had to always be. He needed a place to exist, so it alsomust have come about by it self.Maybe he is both place and being?
Jesus said, the kingdom of God is with in you.

Because I believe this, I respect all people,animals, and the enviorment.

Monavis

[glee]

@monavis

In my belief, The word God, just means,being,or what ever exists.The Old Testment has Moses asking God, who are you? The response was,I am what is. For me all existance every where is what God is. God ,accorcing Judeo-Christian beliefs, is every where. The psalmist says even if I go to hell you are there. In order to be really every where God would have to be everything. I ask if God always was, then the place where He is, also had to always be. He needed a place to exist, so it alsomust have come about by it self.Maybe he is both place and being?
Jesus said, the kingdom of God is with in you.

Because I believe this, I respect all people,animals, and the enviorment.

Monavis

So God is the Universe?

I find your statement ‘if God always was, then the place where He is, also had to always be’ rather puzzling.

What if God wasn’t always in existence?
What if He created the place where He is? Then the place wouldn’t always have existed.
Why does this statement make you respect everything?
Do you respect Hell (it was also made by God)?

[Inigo_Montoya]

@glee

Do you respect Hell (it was also made by God)?

“Don’t you know there ain’t no Devil? That’s just God when He’s drunk.”

My point is, many of us don’t believe in Heaven or Hell except inasmuch as we perceive our own current existence to be in one of those states. “God” as the universe can exist without either if you can accept that they are human constructs. I am an idiot.

[Grrr]

@John Mace

I can sympathize with the OP quite a bit. Not that I worry about it much, if at all, but whenever anyone asks: What if it turns out there IS a God? Well, “meh” is about as good an answer as any.

I’m just a mere mortal and I can totally understand why one would not believe in God. So surely a superior being like God should be able to understand as well. And quite possibly forgive us? That being the forgiving soul he is…

Meh, I’m with the OP.

I’m not going to dedicate my life to something that’s so ambiguous.

I will say this though. And I feel pretty confident most people (Atheist) feel this way. I believe in the pieity of the Bible. By that I mean treat others with respect, don’t lie, don’t steal ect…

[sinical_brit]

Count me in on the OP pov too.

Although - i have to admit, im not sure if ‘meh’ stands for something or is just the sound of an idea being dismissed…

Sin

[Lobsang]

@Freyr

Lobsang, have you ever taken a course in comparitive religion? Not all religions teach the idea that one must believe in order to escape eternal punishment. Even amongst the big Three Monotheisms of the West, it’s still a minority view.

Yet you seem to relish wallowing in this misconception. Yes, the “hellfire and brimstone” preachers exist and make lots of noise. I think they’re over-reported in the news. What’s going to make for better ratings? The local church (or mosque or synagoue or coven) raising money for disaster relief, feeding the homeless, caring for orphans or Fred Phelps on one of his crusades?

I’m hardly wallowing. My point was that God (IHE) can do what he wants with me because I just don’t care anymore. I don’t actually assume all religions claim non-believers are going to be punnished.

@Metacom

Lobsang, you seem really hung up on the subject of God in general, and SDMB threads don’t seem to have given you any real insight on the topic. Have you considered going off the board with it? Even if you don’t ‘believe’ it, you may find it interesting to read some theology that’s a bit more sophisticated then the whole “God sends people to hell who don’t believe in him” schtick. Maybe something by Paul Tillich, if you’re up for a challenge, or John Spong, if you want some lighter reading…

I have gained insight from the SDMB threads, and I blame the SDMB for keeping the issue of God in my mind. Without the SDMB I’d probably never think about it. But there has been a sharpish increase in the number of God type threads lately.

As I’ve mentioned the punishment bit in the OP was just some rhetoric to make a point.

So if I’m hung up on the idea of God then it shows how very good the Theists of the board are at talking about it. This thread was prompted by the one in GD about reproduction as proof of a creator.

[Lobsang]

@Cajun Man

The Pit . . . Great Debates?

Great Debates . . . The Pit?

:: flips coin ::

Great Debates

Cajun Man
for the SDMB

Good placement because it really wasn’t a rant.

:: thanks Cajun Man’s coin ::

[Cheesesteak]

@Apos

If God exists, that's cool with me. I just wish he's stop being such a dick about whether or not he exists. I'm a tired, overworked campaign shlub. I don't have time for fucking riddles where if I get the answer wrong, I fucking explode. God, seriously. You are not some existential Monty Hall. Out with it already.

I think one of the best statements regarding the non-obviousness of God comes from Futurama

God: Bender, being God isn’t easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.

Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money.

God: Yes, if he makes it look like an electrical thing. If you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.

Personally, I dont think God exists, and if he did, I highly doubt the people who run the church have any insight into what he does and doesn’t want. I’ll choose my own path, thanks.

[Voyager]

@CrankyAsAnOldMan

I’m familiar with that attitude/theory (opiate of the masses, cavemen needed some way to explain why the sun sets each night, yadda yadda) but it doesn’t seem to me that this accounts for the scope and range of religious faith. You’ve explained why faith serves a purpose for idiots and primitive cultures, but faith in some higher being extends well beyond those populations.

Who is more primitive: a culture that assumes a bigger, stronger man does things they can’t understand and don’t have the background to understand, or a culture where many assume the same thing despite having the explanations? It seems that many of us aren’t all that far from that man or woman in the cave hoping the sun comes up, or making an offering to ensure the next harvest or rainfall.

Then there is the benefit of giving simple explanations for the “why” questions that lots of people have. It seems that many humans can’t accept that there is no reason - witness all those for whom any result, good or bad, is god’s plan.

And then there is the political factor. Rulers love having the priest tell the people that they are in charge because god wills it. The priest loves the ruler backing them up by stoning any nasty skeptics.

[Headspace]

Lobsang

I am an agnostic (probably) with a passing interest in the GOD question.

If you want a relatively non-theological perspective, I can recommend the Conversations with God books by Neale Donald Walsch as an interesting perspective/logical argument view.

(I don’t buy the whole CWG schtick that has developed from it or even the viepoint expressed but the first book is at least ok as it tos and fros on some of the more common questions.)

[EvanS]

@Several Different Posters

If God exists, and he’s really all that, why should he [enter logical agrument of choice]…

Using logic to argue the existance/nonexistance of a supreme being and to speculate upon such beings actions is like using faith to prove simple mathematics.

• Special thanks to BrainGlutton for the first 11 words with an emphasis that BG is not being specifically targeted.

[Lobsang]

@EvanS

Using logic to argue the existance/nonexistance of a supreme being and to speculate upon such beings actions is like using faith to prove simple mathematics.

Faith might be a false abstract concept like luck. Having faith in something might be ultimately useless because it’s existence is dependant on logic rather than faith. If enough effort is put into the ‘belief’ that one and one results in three then ‘faith’ is required to believe that one and one does equal three. but logic dictates that it makes two.
But I am drunk so meh.

[EvanS]

@monavis

all existance every where is what God is.

For those who accept the theory of evolution:

As life evolved on our planet, it started out simple (according to the fossil record) and became more complex, until at some time it evolved into self consciousness (earlier versions of us). I forget exactly when life began here and I’m too lazy to look it up, but lets posit about a billion years.

Any system under the pressures of evolution will tend to generate more successful descendents: as the solar system evolved it became more ordered, more stable and more successful, etc.

Considering the Universe as a system of immense age and immense size, the evolutionary forces have been acting upon it for a considerable time with considerable material to work with. Since the electro-magnetic nature of matter is now adequately demonstrated, we can posit that a system of communication is possible among the units of matter and energy that make up the universe (EM fields can affect other EM fields).

How long might it take until the Universe became conscious and then self-aware, to the extent that it might even start to manipulate parts of itself until those parts also developed consciousness and then also try to communicate with those parts?

IMHO (which is probably not so H). Considering the age of the Universe since the alleged Big Bang, there has been more than enough time.

Perhaps the question shouldn’t be “Why should there be a God?” but “Why shouldn’t there be a God?”

(H)EvanS

[EvanS]

@Lobsang

If enough effort is put into the ‘belief’ that one and one results in three then ‘faith’ is required to believe that one and one does equal three. but logic dictates that it makes two.

But I am drunk so meh.

Thanks Lobsang, I was trying to figure out how to say that. I guess I just didn’t have the right fuel on board.

[monavis]

@glee

So God is the Universe?

I find your statement ‘if God always was, then the place where He is, also had to always be’ rather puzzling.

What if God wasn’t always in existence?
What if He created the place where He is? Then the place wouldn’t always have existed.
Why does this statement make you respect everything?
Do you respect Hell (it was also made by God)?

Nothing, including “a” God can exist before it has a place to be, so if he created His place it would mean he was nowhere until He had a place to exist, like we could not exist on earth unless there was an earth or place to be. So place had to be there first unless God was both place and being.

Monavis

[monavis]

@monavis

Nothing, including “a” God can exist before it has a place to be, so if he created His place it would mean he was nowhere until He had a place to exist, like we could not exist on earth unless there was an earth or place to be. So place had to be there first unless God was both place and being.

Monavis

I forgot to add; I do not believe in a Hell. As I stated In order for God to be everywhere, It would mean just that. We are a part of a whole,It is a poor analogy, but if one thinks of the ocean being water, one drop is water, the ocean is made of inumeral drops of water,The more water the more strenght, as an example: One can not float a boat on one drop of water,but there is more strength in the whole ocean. In other words the whole is greater than the part.

Monavis

[jimpatro]

If there is a god(which I don’t think we have any reason to believe, ya know magic vs natural processes and all that) it is quite the jerk for doing such a terrible job of taking care of it’s creation. Heads being sawed off etc. Could just swipe us all up to salvation. But nooo…oh wait…shh… “he works in mysterious ways.”