Carli Lloyd, midfielder for the U.S. women’s soccer team, replied “I’m not sure” when asked if the American women could defeat the German men’s soccer team.
Landon Donovan, former star for the U.S. men’s team, said the women would defeat the American men. (In that same article, Ali Krieger, another player for the women’s team, also said the U.S. women would beat the U.S. men by a score of 2-1.)
Such a game (between a top-flight women’s team and top-flight men’s team) has, AFAIK, never happened. But Lloyd, Krieger and Donovan all have tremendous firsthand experience of the game.
Suppose the U.S. women’s team were put into the FIFA men’s World Cup and competed against men, could they advance out of the group stage (assuming two teams advance out of a group of four)?
Donovan is being polite but the level of the men’s game, even for the US which still heavily lags behind European standards, is greater than the women’s game. In the context of the US, the men get more funding, better facilities and better overseas support. The issue of funding regarding the women’s team has been a strong debate for a while.
When Donovan played as the USMNT’s star player, over in Europe he was not actually considered that good and more of a marketing hype because he dominated MLS. Clint Dempsey who made fame in Europe by starring for several years with English club Fulham and later Tottenham Hotspur was seen as the real best American. There were also goalkeepers Brad Friedel of Blackburn Rovers, Aston Villa and Tottenham fame and more notably because of his 2014 World Cup performances, Tim Howard who played briefly for Manchester United (arguably the biggest club in the world) and a decade with Everton. The USMNT of that era qualified for World Cups, could beat a top class nation now and again but the majority of players were journeymen. In 2009 the USMNT made it to the final of the FIFA Confederations Cup which is a tournament held the year before the World Cup in the host nation of the upcoming World Cup between nations who won their respective continental championships. The US beat European champions Spain in the semi final and blew a 2-0 lead vs five time world champions Brazil in the final.
The new generation of USMNT is far better prepared than that team. US soccer has grown a lot thanks to the arrival of big names to the MLS which drove higher interest in the sport which by extension caused a greater attention to improvement of the sport. The national team still features mainly MLS players but these MLS players have shared dressing rooms and the pitch with superstars from Europe. In addition the overseas based players include Christian Pulisic who is a young superstar in the making having played for German giants Borussia Dortmund and now English giants Chelsea. Pulisic is far more naturally gifted than Dempsey was. In addition midfielder Weston McKennie who plays for Italian champions Juventus (team mate of Cristiano Ronaldo) and Sergino Dest of Spanish giants Barcelona (team mate of Lionel Messi).
No… not even close. There would maybe be one or two teams at the world cup that would fail to reach the double digits.
As for a team like Germany, provided you get them to really go all out, they would be down 10-0 and agree not to continue with the second half because everyone was feeling embaressed.
Let’s face it: though a women’s team can be as technically proficient as men’s team, they would never compensate for the physical disadvantages. You’d never ask the same question for the sport of track and field, because the different records for men and women make it obvious that women couldn’t compete with men, but in football the difference is the same. Just two examples, the women would lose every sprint and every header duel for a start. I’m sure even my local club (which I played for in my youth) that plays in the Oberliga (the fifth highest league in Germany) would easily and crushingly defeat a world class national women’s squad like the US or Germany.
My understanding is that the USWNT has played friendlies/scrimmages against the U.S. Mens U-17 and U-15 teams in the not-too-distant past, and lost in those (I’m having a hard time finding good cites, but it appears that, when the USWNT played the U-17 men’s team in 2012, they lost 8-2).
One could question whether both teams were playing “all out” in those, but it does suggest that the US Women’s team would have a difficult time competing against an adult men’s team.
I think it’s scandalous that the women aren’t paid as much as the men, or have as good facilities, when apparently more people watch the women’s game in the US.
But in answer to the OP, no not a chance. It’s not just the physical advantages as mentioned by others， but the women’s game is fairly new; think of it as similar to why, say, China does not have a good soccer team; it takes time to get sufficient candidates through and the top level competition really mould them.
The level of precision and footwork skill should eventually equalize between men and women but is still nowhere close, being brutally honest.
Concur with the general sentiments but one key “technical failing” of the top ranked women’s teams is the standard of the second ranked teams they mostly play against.
They play down tempo, low possession, high risk football which is more than adequate to win consistently and I find entertaining to watch.
But any national women’s team would consistently lose possession against any professional club side and would struggle to regain possession and eventually the sheer weight of effort to maintain defensive pressure would tell severely, even if they “parked the bus”.
As the broader standard of play increases this gap will progressively decrease. But at the moment the gap is huge.
I thought it was scandalous that they didn’t get as much pay as well. But then I found out they get paid less because they rejected an offer to be paid under the same pay-for-play structure as the Men’s National Team. The Women’s National Team decided to go with a pay structure that was less risky but also less rewarding if they were successful. In regards to their pay, the WMT made their own bed there.
What would your metric of “technically proficient” actually be? The small amount of womens football I’ve watched has been at the national team level and the most striking thing about it has been the lack of technical ability.
In response to the OP. No. nowhere close. They’d be thrashed out of sight. I suspect you’d have to get down to U-15 male teams before it would be anywhere near equal.
You’re not wrong, and I expressed myself not clear enough. What I meant was that in theory, the women could be as technical proficient as the men, but they are not there yet by a long stretch. I’ve been following women’s football at the international level (World Cups and European Championships) for over 30 years, and they already have come a long way in that regard. Thirty years ago, their games were often ugly because of the low skill levels, but they’ve made a lot of progress since then, and I can enjoy many games. I think one important reason is that the best coaches all work for men’s teams (because that’s where the money is), so the women’s training is not at the top level of international football.
If you ask me the most glaring disparity in women’s soccer vs men’s soccer is the goalkeeping. The outfield play in women’s games are getting better with slicker passes and movements but the goalkeepers are still awkward protecting the width and height of the goal.
Even if the women match the men’s technical skills, there’s still the physical aspect. Both the weight and strength advantage men have over women mean that the men will be able to overpower the women and push them out of the way. And the speed advantage means the men can get to the ball quicker and run faster with the ball.
To have a chance, I think the women would need some kind of strategy which played to their strengths as women opposed to trying to excel at the male strategy. Perhaps the women could have better team communication or more precise passing as a way to frustrate and tire the men. Imagine something like the women can play keep-away better than the men and patiently wait for the men to tire, get frustrated or make a mistake. I don’t see how women can excel at the typical male strategy of speed, power, and aggression, but there may be other strategies which could work.
I don’t think there is any identifiable tactic or strategy that the women can employ that would not be equally relevant too, and more speedily and aggresively employed, by the men.
Certainly not accuracy of passing, certainly not “keep-away”.
Communication may be one aspect but I’d have to be shown that such a trait was more intrinsically present in women over men footballers. Good communication is something that is hammered into players from the start of their training and I’m not convinced that it operates at a higher level in women over men in those situations.
Several important football skills (e.g. speed, strength, jumping ability) are tested in track & field events in ways that allow comparison. All such comparisons heavily favor men - world-class women typically turn in performances that approximately match those of elite high-school-age men *.
The difference appears to be notably smaller in serious endurance events. In running events of 100mi and longer, it’s become normal to see the top women beat 95% of the men - occasionally 100%. For some YouTube distraction, check out Courtney Dauwalter (easily one of the most interesting and remarkable runners currently competing) - she ran more than 283 miles to win this 2020 event.
*One example would be the mile run: 11 different US high-school-age men have broken 4 minutes, whereas the women’s world record is 4:12.33 (by the great Sifan Hassan).
Which would totally make sense if the women were offered the same contract as the men. It was the same structure (no salary, only game bonuses), but the payments were still significantly smaller. Even the Men’s Team has been calling bullshit on US Soccer’s arguments.
I dunno, is Löw still coaching the GMNT when they meet?
Just kidding. Even in the Germans’ current disarray it would be an embarrassing walkover.
ETA: well, to clarify why, for starters the Germans would be muscling them off the ball nonstop, and the USWNT would be giving up 7” - 8” on corners. Not to mention the sheer speed advantage mentioned above.
