I do – factually. Whilst it can reasonably be said that AIDS is rampant among well-off male homosexuals in the United States and that that transmission vector has gained the lion’s share of press coverage here, it’s been many years since homosexual sex has been the main vector of transmission for the HIV virus or AIDS. Globally, the main transmission vector is straight sex among poor people, has been for years, and is projected to be for years to come. So if for some reason, a person were to come to the belief that AIDS were a punishment from God, it would follow pretty closely that God’s New Testament platitudes about the impoverished were, at least as regards our earthly existence, in error. Additionally, any attempt to relate AIDS to an argument regarding homosexuals would first have to be applied to poor straight people.
There you go interjecting again spectrum. I do not, I repeat I DO NOT think gay people are any less worthy than straight people. Yes, you’re right in your assertion that I think there is something wrong with gay people as in the way your brain chemsitry works But thats not your fault, just like it’s not my fault I was born with asthma. I don’t get offended when people tell me I have something wrong with my breathing. So why do YOU get offended when I say you have something wrong with your desire to be with the same sex?
BTW this debate is allowed because no one here is spreading hatred; dispite what you think.
I know I said I was done. Just couldn’t help myself…
Oh spare me!
You called me diseased! DISEASED! DISEASED!
YOU SAID I NEEDED TO BE “CURED.” YOU ACCUSED US OF BEING MOLESTORS AND CARRYING AIDS.
YOU CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM THE THINGS YOU HAVE SAID, THE EVIL, HATEFUL THINGS YOU HAVE ACCUSED EVERY GAY PERSON – EVERY GAY PERSON, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM IS A BETTER HUMAN BEING THAN YOU – OF.
YOU CANNOT CALL US DISEASED AND THEN CLAIM NOT HATE US!
Your asthma could kill you. My homosexuality cannot harm me. How the hell are the two situations similar?
You look at it as being a disease or disorder like asthma. We look at it as a state, like being left handed.
There was a time when some societies went to some legths to “correct” left handedness, too. They draw a lot of likes to what you want to do.
The point is, it is not something with a negative impact. Not a disease or illness - it is like being left handed. It has no impact on ability to survive, it can’t be medically treated (with anything we know of, I suppose theoretically you could try to alter the brain itself, but then, if being a Republican could be a disease…)
Trying to spread a lot of ignorance, though*.
- Note to mods: This is a play on your sites subtitle, not a personal attack, please don’t bite!
Wow, if that is indeed the case I’ll accept that. I’ve been grossly misinformed on this particuler issue. So I’ll retract my former assertion that AIDS is rampant with the gays. Sorry…
Doesn’t the possibility exist that you have been grossly misinformed on a few of your other assertions as well?
SHAKES, you’ve already lost. My daughter’s gay friend went to the prom a few weeks ago with his boyfriend while she went with her boyfriend, and no one batted an eye. Young people are mostly over this (except for the religious fanatic types, I suppose,) and your type is heading for the trash heap of history with George Wallace and other bigots.
I personally am turned off by male gay sex, but that’s my problem no one else’s. I used to live on a block with two lesbian households, who were a lot more stable than the woman next door who was on her third husband. (And married to him too.)
I can’t imagine why anyone would care what happens in anybody’s bedroom, and I can’t imagine why gay marriage would affect mine.
No one said you’re a victim. Just that your blubbering is an attempt to act like one.
Hmm. AIDS QUIZ TIME!!
Of 2003’s 5,000,000 new cases of HIV (count 'em, five million!), how many were in women?
Nearly 50%!
Of the 40 million or so infected worldwide with HIV, how many live in Subsaharan Africa?
Two-thirds, or 26.6 million!
True or False: Life expectancy in Botswana, which before the AIDS crisis was 74.4 years, is expected to decline to 26.7 years due to AIDS by 2010.
True! (You’ll be interested to learn that 36.5% of the population of Botswana is infected - far more than your estimate (0.1%) of the prevalence of homosexuality!)
Prevalence of HIV infection in Uganda has declined from 30% to 6% between the early nineties and the present. True or false: This is due to governmentally-sponsored discouragement of gay sex.
False! Actually, this amazing decline is due to discouragement of casual heterosexual sex, and increased condom use among heterosexual people!
Yep, SHAKES dear, it turns out that if anyone is responsible for AIDS, it’s you guys! In fact, AIDS was spread out of Africa by straight people! One of the earliest known cases outside Africa was a straight Norwegian sailor who contracted it during his teen years from a (female) Cameroonian prostitute. He probably caught it in the late 1950s, and he later spread it to his (also straight!) wife and his daughter (sexual orientation unknown.)
Of course, it doesn’t make sense to lay blame at any one group, since the arrival of AIDS throughout the world seems to have predated knowledge of it. It’s only a historical and cultural accident that in the US, gay men are more heavily afflicted. And among AIDS cases wordwide, us queermos are a tiny fraction. (Don’t forget, by the way, that lesbians, whom you’ve smeared with your broad brush, are hardly ever transmitters of the disease.) Even here in the States, 30% of new AIDS cases are among women, and straight sex, gay sex, and IV drug use are all major causes of infection. It’s not spread through a single vector.
I don’t understand. Seriously, the syntax of this sentence is simply incomprehensible. Are you saying gay people are stigmatized, the way your gay friends have been stigmatized by you? I hardly think that’s our fault.
Oh dear. I was so hoping you’d be my best friend after this.
Actually, though, we’ve been calling you a bigot, not a liar. The fact that you’ve been lying throughout the thread (for instance, in regard to AIDS above) is secondary in all of our minds to your bigotry and general stupidity.
You mean it? We can be doctors, and police officers, and get married too? Just like you straight people? Wow!
Wrong again. You’ll find that among the rest of us, being able to reconsider your opinions is a virtue. I suppose you wouldn’t know, though, since you obviously don’t even read GD. Or you’d know that we expect a higher standard than you’ve shown. And, you know, you still maintain that gay people are sick. You haven’t changed your mind by much. Nor have you shown any improvement in your spelling and punctuation.
Any proof that two fathers or two mothers are any worse than one of each? Or what about the more common circumstance - where Heather has two mommies and a daddy? Because usually both biological parents are in the picture. Why, little Heather’s got it all, doesn’t she?
Shellfish at its best? Well, you need to make sure it’s very fresh. Go into a reputable fish market, and try to deal with someone you already share a business relationship with. He’ll steer you towards the best stuff, and you already know you can trust him. And it’s common knowledge, but I’ll repeat it anyway: never buy fish on a Monday! Chances are it’s sat around all weekend.
Cite? Or is it, you know, just your opinion again? Gee, you clearly don’t spend much time in GD, or you’d know that when you’re making hate-filled statements, you have to back them up! See, that’s how debate works. It’s different than conversations over beer with your buddies about “them damn homos”.
So now you acknowledge that being gay isn’t “harmful” - that there’s nothing wrong with it. But we should still get fixed. Why is that? Instead of making ourselves happy, should our goal be to make SHAKES happy? I can’t quite understand why that would be!
But I get your point. Having “the gay” is like having a disfiguring birth defect - minor, and surely not something to be discussed in polite society! We should still, however, get it fixed, so our gay doesn’t offend the sight of the likes of SHAKES.
Sorry, dear, the gay stays. It’s not comin’ out - we’re pretty happy just the way we are, in our loving relationships, with our active sex lives and higher incomes, living in homes that are solidly built (since there’s no carpenter like a lesbian!) and impeccably decorated (because you can’t beat a faggot for good taste!)
Uh…because there’s nothing wrong with it.
Do you think there’s something wrong with my feet because I have long second toes? Do you think the world would be a better place if there were a cure for this condition? Should I have a surgical procedure to shorten my toes so I’ll be more “normal”? Can you understand how I might feel offended if you answered “yes” to any of these questions, given that my feet are perfectly functional and having long second toes has never caused me any problems?
Yeah, this has been one of the uglier ones. I also would like to vote for toss in the pit and probably a padlock.
That is a rather shallow philosophical standpoint, though. How many times have you heard a man whine that his female partner simply doesn’t understand him or doesn’t think in the same way; with same-sex relationships, there is a possibility that much closer bonding might occur in certain areas than a man and woman can ever share, given their (typical) differences. This may or may not outweigh any possible disadvantages; there’s no way to measure it, so it’s pointless making comparisons.
But I would also say that not every hetereosexual couple has such a perfect, ideal union - not by a wide margin - if you want to go around disqualifying relationships on the basis of their real or imagined imperfections… well… you know what they say about folks who live in glass houses…
Nah, the love between a man and a womn are unmatched. I think this has pretty much been true since man has been able to walk upright.
Hey man, you’ll get no arguement from me here. Lord knows I’ve been in some f’d up relationships. Still the "fromula is man+woman= the possibilty of a greater love, especialy when children are involved.
Formula? Where is it written?
You really should set out some objective standard for measuring love if you want to start saying that some people have more of it than others.
Having been in love with men and women, and currently being in love with a man and a woman, I find that my love I feel for them is equally passionate, equally moving. There is no discernible qualitative or quantatative difference that is greater than the variations from individual to individual. I don’t see how the possibility of children makes one love another more. I certainly did not love my husband less when I found out that he was sterile. Nor does my love for KellyM wax or wane with her fertility. I have been happily married for fifteen years. For the last four years KellyM has lived with us and for over a year the three of us have cared for and loved our daughter.
How can you assert that the love between a man ans a woman is unmatched? How do you measure love? All the tests I can think of, endurance over time, personal sacrifice, love through adversity, love through illness and old age, raising children together, all of those I have known gay couples to meet as well as any straight couple.
What bothers me the most though is the very idea that there is some kind of magic in biology and that humans are such animals that they cannot love another as much if the possibility of reproduction is not present. I find it as odious as the suggestion that one cannot love their adopted child as much as on you have a genetic connection to. I have been fortunate enough to have living examples of how that idea is utterly false and without merit.
[QUOTE=SHAKES]
A person with the best debating skills in the world still has no chance if ever point he attempts to make is wrong-headed, ignorant, and juvenile.
I am no longer getting much out of this.
At first I thought Shakes had some odd (to say the least) views and I was eager to see him learn better. He has not moved a bit from his first drunken post. This would seem to indicate he is behaving in a troll-like manner that is common on the lesser portion of the net, but which is unusual and unwelcome here.
Shame, really.
SHAKES, What makes the love between a man and a woman so special that it automatically supersedes my love for my boyfriend?
Of course, I can never produce a child with my partner, but I hardly think that prolificacy defines or measures love. If I’m wrong though, please explain. I’ve never before encountered a person that suggested any love I have is somehow subjacent to a heterosexual couple’s, so I’m very curious to understand why you feel this way.
At this point, with Shakes making it clear he doesn’t want to learn, why are we feeding into his desire to offend and spread the ignorance?
I think it’s a shame that you will never know the love that CAN be shared between a man and a man. A love that could not possibly be equaled in any straight relationship. Sorry folks but all that breeding just can’t be right in such an overcrowded world. Yet I do agree a straight couple can share a geuine love for each other. It is still though, in the end, dysfunctional.
Laughing yet? Well you should be.
It’s nothing but the biggest case of hubris to assert on grounds of absolutely no evidence that the love you may feel towards a member of the opposite gender is somehow greater than what I might feel towards a member of the same gender. Such self-centeredness! Such arrogance! You know nothing of me, you have never once experienced such an emotion, yet you would set yourself on high to judge it? You would proclaim it inferior based simply on the irrational belief that it is so?
You know what? I have seen in my life more functional gay relationships than straight ones, more passionate, compassionate, even sacred love among members of the same sex than the opposite. Do I sit there and look down my nose at straight relationships? No! Because I know such anecdotal evidence is based on the character of those specific people, not on whether they’re gay. I know that my straight friends who wish it will eventually find someone to settle down with in a relationship just as stable, healthy and strong as the ones some of my gay friends have found already.
Why can’t you get off your high horse and admit that just because you don’t understand my love doesn’t mean that it isn’t just as powerful as that which you can?
(I apologize if this gets incoherent at points. Written pre-coffee)
Not a problem. Will my regular Friends sized coffee cup with built in diving board do? With or without cream?