Why didn’t one of the witches just cast a spell and move it for you?
David B:
I just about burst a gasket reading that response.
Well, to start with, Marilyn Manson is not and has never proclaimed to be a satanist. He just does not feel that Christianity is the right religion for him. Just because someone chooses to be atheist or agnostic doesnt’ mean they are [in any way, shape or form] proclaimed Satanists. I am an agnostic by choice, because I feel that christianity is NOT the religion for me, and I feel that a great number of people who claim they are good people of their faith are just persecuting others. Not to say that all people of a major religion are out to persecute others, but some are. Just try nto to pigeonhole people next time. I hate being pigeonholed, and I defend people when I feel a need to. And BTW, some of my better firends are wiccan, and they are good people. They do no wrong, and they are some of the nicest people I know.
I’ve met any number of wiccan’s out looking for converts. Don’t dare tell me otherwise. 
O.k., here goes. I’ve been lurking for a few days, and decided to post on somewhat familiar ground to get started.
First, yes, I’m a witch. Haven’t been open about it long, only a little over a year. But, since I came out of the broomcloset, I’ve had a LOT of people ask me about Wicca. I’m happy to give them whatever information I have, but I do not ask if they’re interested in being Wiccan, nor do I try to push anything on them. And I don’t recall ever hearing about Wiccans going up to people and asking them if they’ve accepted the Goddess into their lives. Nor have I heard of anyone complaining that “Those damn persistent Witches keep knocking on my door and leaving their “Witchtower” pamphlets all over my step!” shrug
To address the original question of this thread, I’m not rich in the monetary sense. But, since I became open about my faith, I am much more comfortably set with the bank. When I do ritual or a spell to improve my lot in life, it’s normally a request for guidance, not asking for a hand-out. With Wicca, you may light a few candles, burn some incense, various doings with herbs and such. This is the window dressing as far as I’m concerned. The true impetus is the “intent” behind it and the actions you take once the ritual is over to make sure that your spell works. If you ask for help finding the right job, afterwards you comb the want ads, pound pavement filling out applications, spiff yourself up and give it the ole college try.
I am a rich witch, though. I have a faith system I believe in; a wonderful family that backs me up, even though they don’t feel the same way; and wonderful friends who may laugh at my tarot cards, but ask me to read them for them anyway. I also have an amazing new family in my Wiccan friends who are always there to listen, advise, and tell me to stop acting stupid when I am. You can’t get much richer than that without the money, but you can’t buy the other stuff at any price.
Welcome, Brea. I have the Hello Kitty Tarot deck and am currently designing a deck of my own.
We take a lot of flack here at times. Right DavidB? Brea said exactly how spells work. There is nothing cinematically magical about it, just the awe of the human spirit and what it is able to accomplish. It is similar to prayer but tends to be more proactive.
Saint Zero, the people you met looking for converts were probably recent conversions to the Craft and were still stuck on prior Christian beliefs. I have met a few Prostheletizing Wiccans but by and large the religion itself condemns that action mostly because the Wiccan Rede comes into play. We don’t want people to try to convert us nor do we want to try to convert people. That is simply wrong, mean spirited, and wholly evil (Brother Jed and Sinless Cindy for example. On a side note, I saw some people like them at one of the two colleges I attended shouting something like, “everyone is fornicating in the bathrooms.” It was too funny.) If we wanted the prosthelitizer’s opinion about religion, we would ask.
HUGS!
Sqrl
Sqrlcub said:
What? What? Who? Me?
brea: welcome to the SDMB!
But which is it? are you a “witch”, and thus a believer in the perversion of Christian beliefs & a worshipper of devils? Or are you a “wiccan”, a “neopagan”, whose beliefs are influenced by what we know of the old pagan gods?
The term “witch” means “a sorceress, esp. a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits”. Wiccans, or Pagans, have nothing to do with Satan, or demons or evil spirits. Yes, I know that “witch” has as it’s root word “wicce”, or wise man/woman, but the word “witch” and it’s attendant meaning separated out around the time of Shakespear. So “wiccan” is OK, but “witch” isn’t, unless you REALLY want to give people the wrong impression of your beliefs.
And, as has been pointed out here, there are active Satanists, they call themselves “witches”; and I am sure you want no connection with them.
Oh, quibble quibble quibble. I’ve been calling myself a Witch and a Wiccan interchangeably since I came out of the broom closet, and so do pretty much all of the Wiccans I’ve been able to get to express an opinion on the subject.
Actually, Danielinthewolvesden (whew, can I shorten that?), I call myself Wiccan when I’m referring to my religious preference, and when I’m talking to people who I feel might have those negative feelings towards the term “Witch”. But, I call myself Witch when I’m referring to the Craft with which I work, and among the other Pagans that I know. They’ve been pretty interchangeable for me, and I use what works for the situation.
There are many different ways of looking at and interpreting these terms. As the saying goes “Ask 100 Pagans a question, get 103 different opinions”. Most of us take what works for us and let the rest go. It’s a very personalized way of life, and the paths to our destinations are always changing.
BTW, Satanists? You have to believe in Satan before you can “worship” him/it. Satan is a Christian construct, so Satanism is actually another, albeit much darker, branch of Christianity. I’m not a Christian. I’m a Pagan Eclectic Wiccan Witch.
Does that clear things up?
I tried to use witchcraft a while back but I guess it did not work since Celine Dion is still alive.
-b
BTW, Satanists? You have to believe in Satan before you can “worship” him/it. Satan is a Christian construct, so Satanism is actually another, albeit much darker, branch of Christianity. I’m not a Christian. I’m a Pagan Eclectic Wiccan Witch.
And that is just my point. There are Satanists out there, who are, in a way, perverted Christians. They worship the Adversary. They call themselves “witches”, and according to the Dictionary they are right. Paganism has nought to do with Satan (or Christ), and thus should not use the term “witch”. The old pre-Christian pagan Priestesses did not call themselves “witches”, in fact the word witch was used for some 300+ years to refer to Demon-worshipers- exclusively, before it was used to refer to pagans. So, why do you WANT to use a term that is: wrong, misleading, and pejorative?
Most Pagans I know, and you here, make a big point of noting that your beliefs have nothing to do with Satanism, and in that you are correct. So why do you use a term that misleads & confuses people?
Brea wrote:
I’m not familiar with your nomenclature. Does Eclectic have a special meaning in new age circles? Are there sects that now designate themselves with long titles like the Christians do? Do I need to update my Lexicon?
Daniel and Johnny Angel, as I said in my previous post:
“I call myself Wiccan when I’m referring to my religious preference, and when I’m talking to people who I feel might have those negative feelings towards the term “Witch”. But, I call myself Witch when I’m referring to the Craft with which I work, and among the other Pagans that I know.”
This means that I don’t use the term “Witch” when I’m speaking to people outside of the Craft, at least, not ordinarily. Online it’s a little different, especially here, where I’m trying to make my stand clear on this issue. I’ll try to clarify the whole term here, as I know that it sounded awfully broad and vague.
Pagan- This is like saying “Christian”. There are many denominations that use that term, i.e., Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, etc… Just as some of the Pagan religion are Dianic, Celtic, Asatru, Germanic, etc…
Eclectic- I take different things from different sources, some from Wicca, some from Native American Shamanism, some from Taoism, Buddhism, the original Nature Worship, etc…
Wiccan- This is the primary source of my religious beliefs, and the construct by which I define them. Both Goddess and God deities, rather than just the feminine, or just the masculine.
Witch- This is where the Craft comes in. This is the word I use when I work spells, divinations, ritual. I use this word to define myself in the magickal sense.
I’m sorry I didn’t define this more clearly, and no, I don’t use the whole term most times. I pick one of the above, as the situation warrants. I just didn’t want to sound like I was patronizing or nit-picking. But when I’m talking to people I don’t know, they don’t hear the term “Witch” come from me. An example:
Person: “So, what religion are you?”
Me: “I’m a Wiccan.”
Person: “Really? What’s that, exactly?”
Me: “That means that I follow the nature religion of Wicca.”
If they ask for more clarification, I will happily answer their questions. But, only if they seem honestly interested. I don’t set myself up to be bashed, and I don’t flash my religion like a neon sign. I look like a normal, 30-year old Mom. Sweatshirt, jeans, short red hair and glasses. About the only way anybody will know is if they catch a glimpse of my necklace, which is a small, dime-sized silver pentagram. Most people don’t even notice it, like my mother, others pick up on it right away. Sometimes I get a strange look, other times, a smile and questions.
Just to give another example, I work in a webcenter for internet customer service. I’ve met quite a few Pagans there, although you wouldn’t know it to look at them. I found out by certain words and phrases they used, and asked them about it. A couple of weeks ago, my supervisor (who I get along with very well) asked me about my pentagram. I told her that I am a Wiccan. She asked me some questions about it, and said she’d be interested in learning more. I didn’t tell her much, just offered her a book of mine so that she could read about it for herself and make up her own mind. She hasn’t said much, but she did say she’s still interested in learning more. I told her to get ahold of me anytime, and I’d be happy to talk about it. Never once was the word “Witch” mentioned, and there has been no problem with any of it. I do know others, however, that I would NEVER use the term “Witch” with, because their religious beliefs are very biased against it. Like my grandmother, who is a Jehovah’s Witness.
I hope that this post has helped to make my position a little more clear, and if anybody would like me to say more about it, please feel free to e-mail me. I will be as honest as I can, and if I don’t have an answer, I’ll tell you straight out. I don’t like to play games with people and try to say I know something that I don’t.
Phew long-winded tonight, I guess… Turning 30 has gotten to me tonight…
Rumored Satanist: Stevie Nicks, Led Zeplin, Ozzie, KISS, The Beatles, Motley Crue, Black Sabbath, and many more.
Merry Meet Brea! Yes, that is one thing I forgot when telling my story of ritual. Acting in accordance. Which I did by taking those resumes and passing them out. And not just to choice jobs either. Left it open that the right job for my situation.
As for the prostelatising (sp?)I haven’t come across it around here yet, and I don’t do it. When people ask me about my pentacle I tell them my religion and leave it at that. If they proceed and are curious then I tell them about my beliefs. But, in no way shape or form making it sound larger than life and the answers to all that ails a body. If the continue to show interest and share some beliefs but want to know more, I tell them to get in touch with COG.
If they are that interested then they can persue it. I only tell them who to get in touch with and do not tell my priest or priestess to go and hunt them down. That and I only talk about it to people when THEY ask ME about it, I do not go around converting or offering random information.
As for being a witch you are always going to have people who bunch it with satanism. I am having that problem with my sister-in-law. For that matter with the term christian you get a lot of variation there also.
And nobody take that wrong, because I have no problem with any religion.
I got into one debate about animal sacrifice with a woman who told me that all Pagans are evil because they kill animals and small children. I pointed out to her that the bible is full of animal scarifice, ie: lambs blood over the door, and the only thing that I have sacrificed is worn out ideas and hurt.
Welcome Brea!
I have decided that I am going to have to make some “Witchtower Tracts” now! That is too funny!
And why are you getting that negative stuff from people who confuse you with Satanists? Because you deliberately and on purpose confuse people by using the term “witch”. Most “witches” I know, call themselves that because they want people to think they are “bad”. Odd, people then start think that you ARE bad, or evil. Damn funny how that works, eh?
And Kricket- a pentagram had no place in the old Pagan religions. It is a sign of demonology/satanism. I have studied much of what we would call the “old religions”, esp the Celtic ones, and there is no recorded use of the Pentagram. Green man, horned man, “venus”, triskelion, swastika, circle, spiral, and many more are some of the original pagan symbols. The hexagram, and to a lesser extent the pentagram are used in Kabbalism, but that is not “pagan”. There are a lot of wonderful, authentic, beautiful
pagan signs, so why use one that was & is used extensively by Satanists? (For the same reason I would advise against the swastika).
The various Pagan religions have a lot going for them, but they are going to have to live down (and separate from) the Satanists, and the teenaged girls who think wearing a lot of black and a few silver pentagrams makes them a “pagan witch”
Danielinthewolvesden,
I will say this again. Bluntly. I do not use the word “Witch” when dealing with people who will take it the wrong way. I use either the word “Pagan”, or “Wiccan”.
BTW, the Pentagram stands for the elements. Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. I see that you have spent a lot of time reading about Satanism, but how many and which books have you been reading about Wicca? I am simply curious, as the ones that I have read have consistently told me that the pentagram has been a symbol of Paganism for a very long time, much longer than Satanism has been around. It is a universal symbol for the stars, which of course plays a big part in our religion.
For Pagans, the “star” is faced with a point facing up, meaning also “spirit over flesh”. For Satanists, the “star” is with the point down, meaning “flesh over spirit”.
Evilbeth~
Thanks for the welcome! I actually have some insight into the whole “W*tchtower” thing… my maternal grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness. Going to stay at Gramma’s house took on a whole new meaning! Learned real fast how to tune things out…
“Yeah”
“Unh-hunh”
“Really?”
“Wow…”
Said at the right times, you can be considered a brilliant conversationalist!
P.S. There actually is a Witchtower newsletter site on the “net”. Found it at work one day while surfing the web.
Brea, maybe you don’t- but there are many more who do use the term “witch” as refering to their paganism. Even here in this thread it has been used by 3 or 4.
Modern paganism has only been around a hundred years or so, so the symbols of it could not have been around before Witchcraft, which has been around since 1500 or earlier.
Now, modern paganism has borrowed a lot, or is based on many of the old, Pre-Christian Pagan religions: Cybele, Diana, Aphrodite, Hecate, Epona, Morrigan, Brigit, The Tuatha de Danu, the Horned man, and others. There has been no archeological evidence of the pentagram used in any of these. True, the Moon is used by several of these, but no pentagrams. 3 was the old pagan magic #, at least as far as the Celts were concerned, not 5. Some are connected with Venus, but the ancients knew that was a planet, not a star.
You would be surprised at the # of “pagan” books I have read, especially those who base their Paganism in the Celtic traditions, as many do. I wrote a very nice paper in college on the Sidthe (no pentagrams there, either).
Paganism is a good based, earth based religion, which should be more widely recognized & less vilified. But you folks are part of the problem. Distance yourselves as much as possible from anything connected to Satanism, and you’ll have an easier time. Look at the Sikh religion- that is a “pagan” religion(in a way), and it is growing amoung non-sikhs here is the USA- but nobody attacks IT as “evil” or “satanist”.