Ok I hope someone can straighten me out here.
I post on a forum that has the religions section broken down as Eastern/Western/Nature religions.
There is a woman who posts in the Nature Religions section as a witch. She seems knowledgeable on the subject, and does the ‘Merry Meet’ and ‘Blessed Be’ thing.
In the Western Religions section, she claims to be an Atheist.
Isn’t there Deity in the religion that a witch follows? Can a witch be an Atheist? Can an Atheist be a witch?
Any help appreciated!
Technically, the Devil is not considered a “god”
Oh come on! Even I know that witchcraft is not ‘devil-worship’!
There are many variations of witchcraft. Some don’t believe in any god/gods; rather, they believe in “natural spirits”.
It is possible. In fact, I myself am an “atheist witch”. There are many varieties of witchcraft, and people with a lot of different beliefs consider themselves witches. Some variations, like Wicca, do believe in and worship a Goddess and God. Among other groups and individuals, the belief varies. Some only worship a Goddess, some believe in spirits throughout nature. I personally believe in a natural energy that is present in everything around us and within us, and my variety of witchcraft is simply manipulation of that energy. I don’t personify it, and I don’t worship, invoke, or pray to anything. Thus I consider myself an atheist in that way, but I am also a witch in the sense that I do “magick,” if you will. FTR, I also don’t “do the ‘Merry Meet’ and ‘Blessed Be’ thing.” Talking like that is not what makes someone a witch.
So in a nutshell, yes, it is possible, and I’m a living example of it. It all depends on the person’s individual beliefs, “Witch” is a wider term than just those that worship a Goddess.
And Jiminy, if you think that all pagans/witches/nature believers are followers of Lucifer, you are sadly ignorant and mistaken.
Well, it’s my understanding that, once upon a time, “atheist” was used to refer to any person who didn’t believe in (or denied the existance of) God. That is, the word was only used in reference to the Christian god. So Jews and Muslims may not have been labled as atheists, but pagans, Hindus, etc. would have been, even if they believed in gods of their own. For instance, the second definition of “atheist” in Webster’s is:
That usage is, for obvious reasons, no longer current, and it’s probably not why this woman refers to herself as an “atheist”, but I figured I’d toss that out there.
Pagans and Wiccans, for the most part, do not believe in evil as a separate entity (i.e. Satan or the Devil). Thus, they don’t worship the Devil.
We’ve also got a Golden Rule, too. “Do what thou wilt, an’ it harm none.” Evil=harmful. Therefore, we avoid it.
Make sense?
Isn’t there also something about evil/harm done returning a hundredfold to the doer? I’ve always liked that.
**Regina, ** I think you’re thinking of the Threefold Law. Basically the same thing, just three times, not a hundred. 
I don’t believe in the threefold law, just even 1=1 karma. I worship a Goddess and God, I am a Witch; ergo I am not an Atheist.
Nope, any and all deities.
“Witchcraft” is a VERY vague term that means five hundred different things to five hundred different practitioners. Generally, you look more of personifications of nature than a “god”…
Good god, I hate that stuff. 
[ nitpick ] There is no apostrophe in an. It is not a shortened form of and, but a separate word meaning “if.” The indefinite article and “if” teamed up to force it out of common usage. [ /nitpick ]
Well, thanks, everybody. I learned a lot!
One further note.
Many pagans/Wiccans/witches/whatever name they choose avoid stating so much in public, and usually just say that they are athiests.
Unfortunately, there is still a sizable element of society that views these belief structures as “satanic cults” or other rubbish that serves only to hilight their ignorance (for one, you can’t really believe in Satan without first accepting the Christian bible), and every year there are more reported cases of abuse, beatings, and occasionally murders because of it. In many ways, it is similar to the violence against homosexuals. The effects of the public finding out that a teacher is homosexual or a Wiccan would be fairly similar, for example… and either can lead to violence.
There is also the element of being seen as being nutjobs (the whole “merry meet” and “blessed be” don’t help this :-p). To be fair, I’ve met a lot of pagans/Wiccans/etc who are completely off their rockers (as in, being led to actions by a talking unicorn that only they can see), and even more who have no clue what they are getting into or doing (the so-called Dungeons and Dragons element), but that is hardly unusual in religion. I’m sure for every unicorn talker and Dungeon and Dragoner there are a proportional number of Christians who see God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit in Ruffles or profess religion without fully understanding it.
OK. What does? I’m asking out of all sincerity, since everyone I’ve met who calls him or her self a witch or shaman seems to be a deluded, white-painted teenager with an identity conflict. What exactly makes you a witch and not me? (I’m assuming I’m not a witch)
It is a kinda hard question to answer, since there is no one belief system, structure, gospel, church, etc that defines it. In America today, people generally apply the term to Wiccans, which is a little more concentrated belief structure, but it still varies from coven to coven - from the practices to ritual to which names for the gods/which gods they throw in.
There are several general guidelines though. Firstly, you describe yourself as such. Seriously. Secondly, you have the general theory… the “Do as you will, an it harm none” (in whatever language form is chosen, but “an” is usually thrown in there). Most popuarly, the belief in a moon goddess and usually a sun god (though this is not always the case - you can have a sun goddess and no god, or just an earth mother, or a whole collection of gods). Last (only because they vary so much) come the more popular beliefs… the elements and directions, and the ritual (which everyone uses differently and there is no rulebook for, though most I’ve seen contain a Magic Circle of clean energy). In fact, Wiccans are usually encouraged to write their own “spell books,” so no two are alike. These are typically called their “Book of Shadows,” not because of black magic, but because of the personal nature of the contents.
Hm, that isn’t a very good answer… but we are talking about a religion that can vary from simply channeling energy from nature to worshipping ancient volcano gods with equal ease. Some people invoke/evoke (big difference) spirits/demons/gods, some just meditate, some cast spells, some engage in ritual sex (though if you’ve seen some Wiccans, this isn’t as appealing as it sounds ;-). Some believe in the goddess/god as real beings (akin to a traditional Christian God), some just use them as metaphors (as it is hard to communicate with a vague essence of existence). Frequently, ritual is based around the moon’s cycles. There are a few binding beliefs and rituals, but that is about it.
In fact, there are more things that define NOT being a witch than there are that define being one. For one, harming or injuring others (including animals, aside from eating. Many pagan religions offer thanks to the spirit of the animal that provides their meat - as opposed to God for providing it). For two, believing in “magic missiles” and the like. For three, hating other religions.
Witches are generally light hearted about things. For instance, I’ve seen several sources cite laughing at yourself when you screw up, because the goddess/god find us funny and entertaining. It puts an odd light on stubbing your toe and hopping around on one foot saying “Gah! Ouch! Damnit!” when you realize you’re cheering up god. Bursting into laughter at the oddest moments is worth the look on people’s faces. Sometimes it just feels amazing to look up into the night when you feel like crap, and see a crescent moon through a break in the clouds, and just feel the goddess smiling at you. Its the damndest thing.
Generally, “spells” are looked at very much like prayer is in other religions. You frequetly calm down/center yourself, clear the energy of the space around you, chant, mumble, think, etc something, sometimes make a hand symbol, and concentrate on it… the main difference is you directing energies, not asking god to do something for you. Some people visualize energies, some just “feel” them like wind, etc.
It isn’t really that off the wall… unless you find yourself in a room with a dozen other people with certain colored candles on an alter burning incense, sweeping energy with a broom and using an athame (usually a small white-handled knife used only for ritual, you never cut anything with it) to direct energies while chanting and/or dancing. But you’d be really be amazed at what a frenzied emotional state you can get yourself into doing that. It all seems silly, but it isn’t. It can actually be quite intense and somber, and even beautiful.
I don’t put much stock into the terms “Wiccan” or “witch.” They are very vague and often misused. It can actually be a very interesting, philosophical, and rewarding thing to study, if you can avoid the aforementioned psuedo-goth teenager element and look at it as a serious religion. I certainly don’t consider myself one, though I share many beliefs and sometimes it is simpler to use Wiccan ritual, if only because that is what everyone else uses.
In any case, this is getting pretty out-of-GQ-land… I’d be happy to answer any questions you have in more detail if you want to e-mail or message me.
Given my constant disclaimers on everyone approaching it from their own angle, some may disagree or have different definitions, but that’s the nature of it all. Not pun intended.
I’d love to, but I can’t seem to find your email address anywhere and when I go to your profile and try to email you it says you’ve disabled that.
What exactly is in a typical book such as this? Is it literally “spells”, ie incantations that allegedly have power of some sort?
“Binding”? I wouldn’t have thought that it was that organized. What are these beliefs? Could you describe a typical ritual?
With “magic missiles”, do you mean spells of the sort I described above, ie actual functional magic? I’m not necessarily talking about fireballs from the fingertips, but are we in that ballpark?
Not to belittle this experience, but it sounds like it can be pretty easily duplicated with illegal substances, or even without them. Any group with a common purpose is empowering. Witness any pop music concert.
Read A History of God by Karen Armstrong; several times in that book she reiterates the point that the definition of atheism has changed much over the centuries. It didn’t acquire its current meaning of no belief in any god at all until recently in history. Centuries ago, it meant anyone who held unorthodox religious beliefs that weren’t validated by the officially established church. As control over religious dogma by established churches gradually opened up over the last few centuries, the definition of atheist kept being modified until it took its present form in the 20th century.
Not that this has anything to do with the OP — but who knows, if some witches like to speak in 16th century English, maybe they also use 16th century definitions?