If you are a Republican, you are a racist -- or might as well be

[John_Corrado]

@Left Hand of Dorkness

In the same way, I’m innocent of the crime of slavery. I didn’t steal anything from any black person. At the same time, my ancestors stole the labor of black people and built our family’s wealth on that stolen labor; it got passed on to me in terms of superior housing, superior education, etc.

Maybe yours did. What about mine? They came over from Italy well after slavery was done with in this country, got beaten up for being Catholic wops, and managed to make a successful living in blue collar work- where they worked with, and didn’t discriminate against, African-Americans.

But now, to rectify the wrong done to African-Americans by your ancestors, you’re doing wrongs to me. This is recovery? It seems to me that it’s merely re-establishing the divide and giving new reasons for each side to dislike or distrust the other. “You hired me, but I can’t be sure it’s not to comply with AA guidelines, so I’ll always be on guard because maybe you’re really a racist and think I’m scum.” “You got hired, but I can’t be sure it’s not to comply with AA guidelines, so I won’t trust your work or ability until you’ve proved yourself beyond anyone else.”

I’m not saying that there’s not a problem with African-American poverty today. But continuing to see that as a matter of being an “African-American” problem rather than being a “poverty” problem is making matters worse. We need better and easier scholarships for the poor, and a massive re-direction towards the problems of poverty and urban blight.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@John Corrado

Maybe yours did. What about mine? They came over from Italy well after slavery was done with in this country, got beaten up for being Catholic wops, and managed to make a successful living in blue collar work- where they worked with, and didn’t discriminate against, African-Americans.

When I refer to inefficiencies in the system, this is the kind of thing I’m talking about. When I say that it’s a terrible system, that’s what I mean. I definitely understand where you’re coming from with this.

My problem is that I’ve not seen a more efficient means of correcting these past injustices, and I don’t think that ignoring them is an acceptable solution.

I’m not saying that there’s not a problem with African-American poverty today. But continuing to see that as a matter of being an “African-American” problem rather than being a “poverty” problem is making matters worse. We need better and easier scholarships for the poor, and a massive re-direction towards the problems of poverty and urban blight.

Except for the second sentence, I strongly support this paragraph. Thing is, descendants of Africans brought over as slaves have a unique history in our country that demands unique reparations – the only other group with a comparable (though still distinct) claim is Native Americans. It is an African-American problem, and it’s directly related to the history of slavery, and it’s perfectly legitimate to take that unique history into account when devising a solution.

However, I’m wondering if this ought to be a new thread: I don’t want to look like, by arguing (limitedly) in favor of Affirmative Action, I’m supporting the OP here. I’ve certainly seen no evidence at all that you’re directly or indirectly racist, and I’d say the same about most if not all the folks who’ve posted in this thread, conservative, liberal, democratic, or lunatic.

Daniel

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

Crap. That last line might come across as an insult to someone. I meant to type “conservative, liberal, libertarian, or lunatic,” including the final as a throwaway silly line. Somewhere in the typing, libertarian changed to democratic, and a subtle insult could be derived from the resulting sentence. None was meant.

Daniel

[XT]

@rjung

No disagreement from me. Which is bound to disappoint xtisme, I’m sure.

Terribly dissapointed, old man.

@Evil Captor

Surely you dont’ believe that only white people can be racist?

To Evil Captor: Do I believe only white people are racists? Sure I do. Seems as reasonable to me as all Republicans are racists. :rolleyes: Whats the problem? Oh ya…and don’t call me Surely. The name is Xavior Tomas if you please…

So far you’ve shown nothing more than tinfoil hat class ‘evidence’ that ALL Republicans are racists. You’ve not even been able to establish that the Republican party has a racist agenda. The fact that you even take this seriously at all shows some fairly disturbing things about your level of partisanship to be honest. And ya…I think this kind of thing belongs in the pit to be honest. I’m frankly surprised that it HASN’T been transfered there…

-XT

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Entering Day 3 of this debacle, I still haven’t seen any evidence from Evil Captor supporting his assertion. In fact, I haven’t seen anything but insults from our esteemed thread starter (the insult being the perjorative “racist” being hurled with no evidence).

Can I expect some, or is this thread just going to die a silent, embarassed death? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

If y’all are getting tired of this thread, you could always go over to Cafe Society and argue about Evil Captor’s assertion that Attack of the Clones was far better than Firefly :).

Wacky fun, I tell you! Wacky fun!
Daniel

[Evil_Captor]

@Bricker

What, specifically, are the racist legislative acts promoted by the Republicans?

The OP mentions opposition to affirmative action, as well as Jim Crow laws. I feel sure the OP will acknowledge that the GOP does not currently support Jim Crow laws, and that the Democratic party was once the one fighting for slave ownership. So the past seems not to be a fruitful arena for comparisons.

Now, currently, apart from opposition to affirmative action, what are the GOP’s racist legislative goals?

• Rick

They don’t really have a lot, Rick, because they’ve accomplished most of their racist agenda. They’ve dismantled welfare (I know, there are more white people on welfare than blacks, but the dumbass racists the Repubs support always BELIEVED welfare was primarily for black people), they’ve blocked affirmative action, they took a REAL RUN at the school lunch program (remember the Reagan administration’s claims that ketchup was a vegetable and should be counted as such in school lunch programs? Whatta scumbag…)

However, they recently opposed hate crimes legislation (which would make racially motivated crimes more thoroughly punished, among other things):

Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe

The only thing left really, would be to roll back the Voting Rights Act and reinstate the Jim Crow laws. As a matter of practice, they violate the hell out of the Voting Rights Act when they can – as they did in Florida in 2000:

http://www.mikehersh.com/Racism_as_Republican_Electoral_Strategy.shtml

[Evil_Captor]

@John Corrado

Dem racists are not seeing their goals enacted because they don’t currently control the government.

Let me ask you this- do you deny that Louis Farrakhan is a racist, and that the Nation of Islam has a racist agenda? After all, they promote black supremacy, anti-semitism, and a need to exclude whites from all matters. And do not Democrats- Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and others- constantly attempt to shore up the support of the Nation of Islam through advocating the same policies?

Who care about the freaking Nation of Islam? They’re barely a blip on the radar.

In addition, your assertion of “racist legislation” is completely based upon the assumption that an opposition to affirmative action is racist. But isn’t the very definition of racism that of defining someone by his race? And isn’t that what affirmative action does- defines a certain subgroup as ‘more desirable’ and places them first in exclusion to other groups?

This is a very old argument, and all you have to do to believe it is forget about U.S. history for the past couple of hundred years and ignore the stats on black people in the workplace and in education. :rolleyes:

If you wanted to work for a non-racist society, you would work towards a blind society, one in which every child born had the same opportunities regardless of class or color. That is not what affirmative action works for; it works to continue to divide this country by race. It may have the goal of reversing past anti-black discrimination by replacing it with pro-black discrimination, but that still is discrimination and still leads to resentment and divide between the groups.

Yeah, but first you have to clear up the effects of decades of prejudice and oppression. THEN you can start with the color blind stuff.

No one got a ‘special priveledge’ into Yale or Harvard for being white, they got it for being of a certain class and social group.
[/QUOTE]

Who all “happened to be” white. Just like the Pubbies always “happens to” oppose civil rights legislation on grounds other than racism. The consistency of their position is a dead giveaway. The ease with which you dismiss the American legacy of prejudice is another dead giveaway …

[Evil_Captor]

@Airman Doors

Fine. You want an argument?

Your premise is: If you are a Republican, you’re a racist.

I say: Prove it. Prove that each any every registered Republican is a racist. It’s your assertion, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. It’s that simple.

Your “Southern Strategy” and “code word” stuff may lead you to a certain conclusion, but that does not mean that that conclusion is correct, and since you made the claim that “If you are a Republican, you are racist”, you can prove that you are correct. Have at it, and good luck. :rolleyes:

I’ll be around to refute any more such proclamations that are posted without absolute demographic proof that you make in the future.

You can’t follow a deductive argument so now you ask me to prove it by inference. That’s just sad.

[Evil_Captor]

@John Mace

I’m surprised you’d accept that premise. Being against some forms of AA does not equate to racism. If I were to propose legislation that provided all minority groups with $5000 cash per year and you opposed it, which one of us is the racist? Hey, my legislation helps minorities, so it can’t be me, right?

All you need to do is look at the latest SCotUS decision on the Michigan case to see that AA, in which minorities are given an explicit advantage, is not considered constituational.

If you held the majority at the expense of the minority, that is racism. If you swap minority and majority in that statement, it is also true.

If you live in a society that has a history of oppressing a particular minority, it is only fair to set things right. Is that racism? No, it is justice. You’re like someone who imprisons a criminal for years for sometihng he didn’t do, then when it’s established he’s innocent and he’s released, say that he’s owed no redress – he’ll be treated like anyone else, from here on out. Well, he wasn’t treated like anyone else for the years he was in jail …

[Evil_Captor]

@hansel

Evil Captor, besides some hand-waving about the Southern Strategy, you’ve done nothing to show that the Republican party is following a systematic agenda of appealing to racist positions, or even that the Southern Strategy is still operative and dominant in their strategizing. Until you do that, you’re just pointing fingers.

This is simply not true. Are you claiming the Repubs no longer use the Southern Strategy? When did that happen, and where’s your evidence? What do you call opposition to affirmative action and the misuse of voter rolls to strike black people form the ballot box? What do you call opposition to hate crimes legislation? Have you slept through the last couple of decades or what?

[Beagle]

I know, next you know they’ll be using our water fountains.

I’m sorry if someone perceives that our society is horribly racist, cuz really, mostly people just think about themselves.

Growing up right after the Civil Rights Act means I missed the overt racism in the South. But, luckily, I was able to see much of it for myself in places like Detroit and New York. Oh, was that not the correct answer?

[Evil_Captor]

@xtisme

Terribly dissapointed, old man.

To Evil Captor: Do I believe only white people are racists? Sure I do. Seems as reasonable to me as all Republicans are racists. :rolleyes: Whats the problem? Oh ya…and don’t call me Surely. The name is Xavior Tomas if you please…

So far you’ve shown nothing more than tinfoil hat class ‘evidence’ that ALL Republicans are racists. You’ve not even been able to establish that the Republican party has a racist agenda. The fact that you even take this seriously at all shows some fairly disturbing things about your level of partisanship to be honest. And ya…I think this kind of thing belongs in the pit to be honest. I’m frankly surprised that it HASN’T been transfered there…

-XT

Y’know, try reading with comprehension. The Repubs are racist by association because their party leaders have a deliberate policy of truckling to racists. The reason it hasn’t been transferred should be obvious, but I help you out since I’m a nice guy and all: I’m making a logical argument and supporting it with cites and such, not just indulging in name-calling, and no amount of accusations along those lines will make it so.

Why don’t you alert a Mod to this thread if you’re so concerned?

[Evil_Captor]

@Airman Doors

Entering Day 3 of this debacle, I still haven’t seen any evidence from Evil Captor supporting his assertion. In fact, I haven’t seen anything but insults from our esteemed thread starter (the insult being the perjorative “racist” being hurled with no evidence).

Can I expect some, or is this thread just going to die a silent, embarassed death? Inquiring minds want to know.

Point out an insult, smart guy.

As for the rest, there is none so blind as he who will not see.

[John_Corrado]

@Evil Captor

They don’t really have a lot, Rick, because they’ve accomplished most of their racist agenda. They’ve dismantled welfare (I know, there are more white people on welfare than blacks, but the dumbass racists the Repubs support always BELIEVED welfare was primarily for black people),

So, eliminating welfare was objectively not racist because it did not affect black people more than whites, but because you insist that Republicans are dumbass racists who believed that welfare was only for blacks, their rolling back of welfare is proof that they hate blacks?

You’re stating your own prejudices, then using your own prejudices to prove that your prejudices are correct.

they’ve blocked affirmative action, they took a REAL RUN at the school lunch program (remember the Reagan administration’s claims that ketchup was a vegetable and should be counted as such in school lunch programs? Whatta scumbag…)

So, by cutting back on social programs to help the poor, they’re attacking blacks? But I thought you said that only dumbass racists believed that social programs like welfare helped blacks more than whites? What does that make you?

@John Corrado

No one got a ‘special priveledge’ into Yale or Harvard for being white, they got it for being of a certain class and social group.

Who all “happened to be” white.

But, again, you’re stating that because the beneficiaries of oppression were white, therefore all whites benefited from oppression, and hurting all whites now is equal response. That’s completely illogical, again.

Just like the Pubbies always “happens to” oppose civil rights legislation on grounds other than racism.

Like which? Name any recent civil rights legislation. You mean like the Americans With Disabilities Act, championed by Bob Dole and signed by George Bush? You mean like the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which eliminated the Poll Tax, which was supported by more Republicans than Democrats?

The consistency of their position is a dead giveaway. The ease with which you dismiss the American legacy of prejudice is another dead giveaway …

Oh, bullshit. Where did I ‘dismiss the American legacy of prejudice’? I specifically stated that the problem that African Americans face today are problems of being the underclass, and I fully agree that the main reason that African-Americans make up the underclass is due to the prejudice of society in the '50’s and before. I simply don’t believe that perpetuating racial biases is the way to combat the problem, and because of this, you call me a racist.

This is simply not true. Are you claiming the Repubs no longer use the Southern Strategy? When did that happen, and where’s your evidence?

You’re the one asserting that it is still going on; as standard in GD, as the one making the initial assertion, it falls to you to prove it. So get cracking.

What do you call opposition to affirmative action

I call it blocking a program that I believe will hurt African-Americans more than it helps.

What do you call opposition to hate crimes legislation?

A sensible decision to keep ‘thought crimes’ from becoming the law.

[Beagle]

Trying to prove others are race-obsessed has a way of proving the opposite.

I registered Republican when I was 18. Why? Cuz Reagan was going to stand up to the Commies. No more detente, unilateral nuclear freeze, or listening to whiney socialist surrenderniks. Those were my stupid reasons for being a Republican.

As for affirmative action, it obvously should be based on need – not race.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@John Corrado

A sensible decision to keep ‘thought crimes’ from becoming the law.

Now you’re just getting silly. Do you oppose criminalizing attempted murder, or conspiracies? Do you oppose stricter sentences for voluntary manslaughter than for involuntary manslaughter? Do you, in short, oppose all the myriad ways in which the law takes under consideration the thought processes of the perpetrator when judging the seriousness of the crime?

Opposition to hate crimes legislation isn’t racist – it’s just logically unsound.

Daniel

[John_Corrado]

@Left Hand of Dorkness

Now you’re just getting silly. Do you oppose criminalizing attempted murder, or conspiracies?

But attempted murder implies an action was taken. Likewise with conspiracies, a conspiracy doesn’t begin until some action is taken. If I sit around blabbing with my friends, and we talk about how we’d like to knock over a bank, are we committing conspiracy to commit armed robbery? It’s not until action comes from those thoughts

Do you oppose stricter sentences for voluntary manslaughter than for involuntary manslaughter?

But that’s about desire for the outcome to occur, not belief.

Do you, in short, oppose all the myriad ways in which the law takes under consideration the thought processes of the perpetrator when judging the seriousness of the crime?

But the court process never takes under consideration the belief system of the perpetrator- it judges whether the action occured, and whether the action was intended to occur. Hate crimes criminalize free speech by stating that certain beliefs are wrong and if stated can get you a longer time in jail.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@John Corrado

Hate crimes criminalize free speech by stating that certain beliefs are wrong and if stated can get you a longer time in jail.

Not the ones I’ve heard of. The hate crime laws I’ve heard of add additional penalties on to crimes that were committed based on specific motivations. Would you mind linking to hate crime laws that criminalize free speech, or do you want to rethink that argument?

As it is, they no more criminalize free speech than conspiracy laws do. If I call you up, say, “I’ll pay you ten thousand bucks to kill Mr. Magoo,” then I’ve entered into a conspiracy with you, whether or not you kill Mr. Magoo. If you kill him, I can be tried for his murder, even if I was on the other side of the world when you pulled the trigger.

Similarly, if I run a stop sign and hit Mr. Magoo and kill him, I’m likely to be tried for involuntary manslaughter. If I was bragging in a bar the night before about how I was going to run Mr. Magoo over, then based purely on the evidence of my speech, I can be tried for first-degree murder.

Similarly, if I beat up a guy and take his wallet, I can be tried for assault and theft. If I was bragging in the bar the night before about how fags were such easy targets, I can be tried for a hate crime in addition to assault and theft.

How are these not analogous?

Daniel

[Shodan]

@Evil Captor

The Repubs are racist by association because their party leaders have a deliberate policy of truckling to racists.

@Evil Captor

it is my hope that in the next election, many racists will hold their nose and vote Democratic because of the economy.

So now “the economy” is a code word for racism?

@Evil Captor

I’m making a logical argument and supporting it with cites and such, not just indulging in name-calling, and no amount of accusations along those lines will make it so.

Nope, it’s name-calling. “Anyone who disagrees with me is a racist”.

@Evil Captor

Point out an insult, smart guy.

Read the title of the OP, non-smart guy.

@Evil Captor

Why don’t you alert a Mod to this thread if you’re so concerned?

Already done.

DNFEC.

Regards,
Shodan