Just curious. Would you cross a poodle and a border collie or use other mixes selecting for genius dogs?
Breeds ranked in working intelligence: The Intelligence of Dogs - Wikipedia
NB: note the methodology, it doesn’t pretend to cover other aspects of intelligence.
The link suggests the poodle was chosen more for its non-shedding capability rather than its brain.
As someone who’s owned standard poodles for more than 20 years, I wouldn’t call them “smart” as much as I would “cunning.”
I am really against breeding designer dogs ! I think this has gone too far , there are so many dogs being killed every year and people should rescue a shelter dog or cat .
There are great dogs waiting for someone to be their hero ! There is no needs to breed more dogs or cats.
Poodles are already about as smart as it gets in a dog. That’s why they’re popular circus dogs - because they’re athletic and highly trainable. Border collies are considered smarter, but they’re also more neurotic. If you want a sweet, smart, agile, easily trainable, non-shedding dog who isn’t going to dig through the floorboards if he can’t get his daily workout, just get a poodle. They’re lovely dogs and there’s probably a poodle rescue in your area begging for homes.
Don’t pay thousands of dollars for a crossbreed where the outcome is more of a coin-toss.
Just get a border collie. Or an Australian shepherd. Or some mix of either of those breeds. I’ve had one of each (mixes, I mean) and they are very smart dogs, also not too smelly. They shed like…well, they shed a lot. Nobody’s perfect.
Yep, I had a border collie when I lived on 20 acres in the country, and they are smart, smart, smartwhen they’re in the right environment. Basically you don’t train a BC - you show them. Like once. They’re intelligent for sure - and they’re working dogs; so don’t ever get one if you live in a city or an apartment. They literally go crazy cooped up in a backyard. And they’re smart enough to be escape artists. It’s a great combination for cat killing, attacking dogs and kids and all sorts of sad crazy-eyed dog things.
Despite the bad press they seem to get, Dalmatians are very smart - when they have the appropriate training. They are highly intelligent, which makes them appear flighty and a bit dog ADD, but goddamn it, they’re just interested and curious about everything. People often don’t understand that, or have the patience for training them, because it takes a number of times for them to learn something. But when they get it, it’s there forever - and of course the more they learn the better they get at learning. They are absolutely hilarious and will intentionally do things to make you laugh - which to me is most certainly a sign of intelligence.
And Hilarity N. Suze I’ll bet they beat Australian Shepherds in the shedding department…! White hair with a tiny barbed end for extra grabbage. Keeps 'em clean and odourless though.
So I agree with the no need to cross breed - there are already plenty of smart breeds.
So let’s cross a poodle with a wolf (which, I’m assuming without researching, must be as smart as any dog)–if for no other reason that the ability to call the offspring poolfs or woodles.
I recall reading a book which described what it considered 2 different types of canine intelligence. One was the likes of poodles, dobes, shepherds - which could figure things out. I forget exactly how they described the other type - I think it was long the lines of readily trainable. If there is any merit to such a theory, it might be best to breed across the different types of intelligence.
I note it also warned about what you are getting with an intelligent dog, as such a beast will require stimulation. Might not be for everyone.
(I really like Goldens. I’ve had 4, and my current 8-yr old is exceptional at being the dog I want him to be, but I sure wouldn’t rank his breed #4!)
Hasn’t this already been done?
I was pretty sure the border collie was more or less the result of what the OP is asking for; it is more or less universally believed to be the smartest of recognized dog breeds. If you want a really smart dog you’d be well advised to have a breeder pair up the smartest bordie collies they could find.
You could breed a border collie with another smart dog, I guess, like a poodle or any number of retrievers - Lab, toller, golden - but you won’t be any further ahead, really.
Border and Lab; I just never had a good experience with a Poodle. I’ve always thought of them as tall sedate Chihuahuas ---- mostly good for the table/plate.
Standard poodles are hunting dogs, bred for intelligence and trainability. Miniature and toy poodles are another story.
German Shepard dogs are super smart.
I’d agree with this. My wife’s family does poodles. They’ve had five since I’ve known them. With none of them have I thought, “Wow. This dog is brilliant!” One was definitely a conniving little shit, though. The only dog I’ve ever met (of many) that was a total dick. It was so weird! Dogs are always derpy and happy! This dog was just an asshole. Anyway, they’ve had two standard poodles which seem fine but nothing amazing, just nice regular dogs. The three small poodles…toy? Not teacup…they were not my favorites.
Several years ago I got a hound mix from a shelter. After years of poodle I thought, “Woah. This dog is crazy smart.” The first time I took him to the vet, she made a comment like, “I bet you’ve noticed a big step up in intelligence.” which caught me off guard since poodles are supposed to be top of the list.
My son has border collies and I can attest to their intelligence. It is true what a previous poster said, they do train themselves. Demonstrate what you want them to do a time or two and they will pick it up immediately. His dogs will even observe you doing something, and if it is something they can approximate, they will do it spontaneously. One of my son’s BCS will pick up laundry that is on the floor and put it in the laundry basket, unasked.
He solved the issue of them not having enough to do in a fenced yard by installing a small agility course in the yard and instructing them on how to use it. He also plays Frisbee with, letting them show their incredible jumping ability and blow off some steam.
With some attention to their needs, they can be great family dogs.
Well sure, they’re bred to be a master race of canines.
A poodle/border collie mix will almost certainly produce a smart dog but a smart dog isn’t necessarily the best pet. It depends on what suits the owners too. Very few people can give a really intelligent breed the mental stimulation and exercise they need and then it ends up a nightmare for both dog and owner. The truely stupid ones aren’t great either though.
If it had to be a crossbreed, I’d prefer something like a bull breed eg: a bullmastiff, with a gundog eg: a lab. Brains and brawn, but not neurotic.
I had a dog that was part boarder collie and part St. Bernard. Nothing like a dog with the brains to decide to do what ever he wanted and the body to back it up. You could always see the wheels turning behind his eyes and at 80 lbs., you were not going to force him otherwise. Fortunately he was always mellow and agreeable most of the time.
Well, I mean, they are still dogs. They’re not sitting around contemplating Spinoza.
The smartest dog I’ve ever had was a Lhasa Apso and a complete rat bastard. She had her own agenda and held grudges when we failed to meet it. She was pretty cool, admittedly, but I’ve moved on.
Sadly, there’s a lot of trash breeders with poodles. This is especially true of breeders who prize daintiness above all. When buying from a breeder, look for someone who’s been in the business for a while and is active in areas of dogdom like therapy or search and rescue. Look for a breeder who does more with the dogs than churn out puppies, I mean.