If you whine about political correctness, you're a bigot

Okay, fair enough. I used hyperbole, and you didn’t bite.

But the problem is, your own arguments are similarly hyperbolic. You decry “control of language” as a bad thing, when it is, instead, the natural function of language in society. You’re still throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Civilization has rules of behavior, for the purpose of smoothing social interactions. We do discipline each other, by the thousand and ten mild social criticisms we encounter every day. If someone shouts seriously offensive words, he won’t get invited to many parties.

So just bitching “This is control of language” isn’t a valid rebuttal. Of course we want to control some of the excesses of language. You can’t come and take a crap on my sofa, either.

No one else will, IPU willing.

The ghost of Rick James has just shuffled off disconsolately.

Nah, the lowest form of wit is physical humor.

(Hits Jack in the face with a pie, giggles and capers, then runs.)

Your capers do make for some salty humor, Trin.
The lowest form of wit is the pun, motherfuckers.
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You literally posted that changing languages changes minds, but I’m paranoid for quoting you? Hell of a metamorphosis you’re trying to pull off.

Just own your shit. You want to control language so as to control minds. Own up to it, knock off the doublespeak.

Raising children and limiting the range of acceptable thought are not analogous. But I like how you wrap your blatantly despotic politics in an appeal to the welfare of children.

Don’t wear yourself out grasping for straws big guy.

You do realize that “change” and “control” are two different things, right?

Not if an individual or group is actively trying to drive and shape the change.

Ah, *there’s *the Orwell! Had a suspicion it was coming.

I’m not sure why on earth I would “own” a thoroughgoing misrepresentation of my views. Of course language shapes thought. This is pretty clear throughout multiple disciplines. I can recommend several excellent texts on linguistics and linguistic anthropology, if you’re interested. Here’s a pretty good start.

I’m sorry you find my views so offensive. I think you’re reading a lot more into my posts than I’ve actually written, and I think your seeking offense where none is intended or implied. I neither said nor implied that you are paranoid; I think that immediately jumping from “change” to “control” seems to imply a great deal of fear that I do not share.

But whatever floats your boat.

Right. Driving and shaping change just isn’t something a good person does.

You speak of “change” as though it’s not being directed, but it is.

Can you honestly say that if language were changing in a way you didn’t agree with, that you would exert control to alter its course if you could?

A good person doesn’t want to control other people’s minds. Personal autonym trumps social niceties.

Why does that make “change” the same as “control?” I’ve posted a lot on this board about gay rights issues, hoping to change people’s minds so that they’d support gay rights. Was I exercising mind control by trying to do that? Were the people I was arguing with, who were opposed to gay rights, trying to control my mind?

jsgoddess trumps social niceties? EXCELLENT NEWS.

If you try to persuade somebody, then you’re engaging it a debate. But that’s not what I commented on. I commented on andros’s comments about changing language to change minds.

Political correctness does not work by persuasion. It works by coercion of language and the circumscribing of acceptable speech and opinion.

Hence, speech isn’t being changed by persuasion, but by control of the language itself, with the aim of controlling minds.

That’s what I object to.

jsgoddes = personal autonomy? You think a lot of yourself apparently.

I do. I also think I’m a better reader than you are.

So, just to clarify.

Scenario #1:
Racist: Black people are stupid!
Me: No they aren’t! Black people are just as smart as any other racial group!

Reasonable debate
Scenario #2:
Racist: That guy’s a nigger!
Me: Don’t say “nigger.”

MIND CONTROL!
Does that about sum it up?

No, obviously not. But just as obviously, you’re dogmatic adherence to PC won’t allow you to look at the matter any other way.

So you do think you’re synonymous with personal autonym? Please expound. Somebody with your great reading abilities must be an excellent writer as well.