Really? They all look alike to me.
I’m not sure that’s the most important point. Slavery does, in fact, exist with the full knowledge, if not support, of quite a few governments. I’d argue that turning a blind eye and outright endorsement are essentially the same thing.
If you think some white people are crazy for thinking they are at a disadvantage because they are white, and you want to make the world a better, more informed place, then you should stick to the facts and let those handful of white people learn through facts and intelligent dialogue.
You’re in the pit, being all bitter and a step away from the persecuted role. For what? A few nut jobs?
Didn’t you hear? We have a Black President now. Racism solved.
Pfff… just steal the nearest culture’s instruments and then add a few chords and you’re good to go! No one listened to *their *stuff anyways!
Huh? How is Argent’s position inconsistent? What is it inconsistent with? What metric are you using for consistency? In other words, what the hell are you talking about?
You might not like his position (as reasonable as it is), but consistency has nothing to do with it. You’ll have to find another plan of attack. And if you don’t like his position, why not put forth what you think is a good idea. I take it you think reparations are a good idea. Why? And how would you go about it? What would the underlying reason, and metric, be for doling them out?
What “all black community” are we talking about?
A majority-black middle-class suburb or a ghetto? If the latter, will they pose a danger to the white person because they’re probably not from there and probably have money, or because they’re white?
Are there actually equivalents to the sundown town in the US?
The inconsistency is that he says people should be consistent in condemn slavery, then says if there are to be reparations, they should come from a) the African warlords and b) the traders (with at least a possibility from the grammar that he is referring to African traders), without any mention of c) the American plantation owners who bought the slaves and profited from them. Hence in his desire to blame Africans (or even at the most charitable Africans and some Europeans), he whitewashes the responsibility of those who demanded other human beings be transported overseas in bondage and treated them often worse than animals.
In other words, his ‘consistency’ is exceedingly inconsistent. That you too can be so blind to the role of the consumers of slaves makes me wonder what the hell you are talking about.
I haven’t said anything about whether I think reparations are a good idea. So try again.
In fact, I don’t believe in reparations at all. But I am sure you feel better thinking I do.
Definitely is the ‘awesomest team name’ evah. So, to answer:
In general I’d have to say that whites have it better than blacks. This is my verbatim answer, mind. Of course, mileage may vary, and some white assuredly have it worse than some blacks, etc etc…
-XT
I think you’re incorrect in thinking he was trying to absolve Whites of their role in slavery. To recap, buttonjockey308 wrote, “the shame of slavery is a mark on the soul of our country.”. Argent’s response was:
Look at the the third word in each of the first two paragraphs. “Also”. So, he acknowledges that it is a mark on the soul of the U.S. He’s simply making the point that the fault does not lie solely with us.
I’d also take issue with your “…the responsibility of those who demanded other human beings be transported overseas in bondage…”. “Demanded”? No one demanded anything. They saw an opportunity to capture and turn their neighbors over to strangers for a profit and took it. What you wrote is just that kind of wrongheaded revisionism that Argent was rightfully trying to combat.
Based on what you wrote, my assumption was logical, but also wrong. Good. I’m glad.
Actually, it makes me feel better to hear that one less person holds that asinine position. In that, we are brothers.
Also, if Argent thinks that reparations, if granted at all, should come from the seller side exclusively, I, too think that is wrongheaded. If that was the inconsistency you were pointing to, I agree.
African governments don’t owe black Americans reparations because they never promised them any.
Nor did the African governments have constitutions that ensured the general welfare of its citizens and the equality of all men. Not only did our government turn a blind-eye towards slavery, but it used it blatantly in the construction of its own Capitol, the symbol of freedom and liberty for all. Not only did slavery belie the US’s own founding principles, but the century’s worth of persecution following Emancipation also was a huge act of betrayl. Find me an African government that oppressed American citizens for over 300 years, and I’ll say you might have a point, Argent Towers.
Bringing up African governments is a way to divert attention to the wrongs of your own country. African governments did not invent the Middle Passage. They did not pack millions of people into shipholds like sardines and break them like animals. They did not invent chattal slavery in which not only your lifetime would be spent in servitude, but that of your children and their children and their children. Unable to read, unable to run away, taught that Jesus was white and that you were the son of Ham, forever cursed, and beaten over the head (literally) with this dogma so that you would stay meek and passive and wait for sweet chariots to take you home. Treated no better than livestock. Africans did not invent this. Americans did.
So if you’re all adamant that blacks get reparations for slavery from Africa, Argent, I expect you’ll be in support of them getting them from the US as well. African was the gun dealer, but it was America who shot the place the fuck up, all the while singing, “I’m a Yankee Doodle Dandy!” All crazy and scary-like, with fireworks in the background. In real life, we hold mass shooters responsible for their fuckupitide. We don’t ever blame the gun dealer, remember?
Every day I have to pass by a spooky series of monuments to Confederate soldiers who fought for the oppression of black people, my people (I imagine it would be like you passing by Nazi officers every morning…but perhaps you’d disagree because the Civil War happened So Long Ago). The other day I spotted some tourists snapping photos of Robert E Lee. Asian tourists…don’t know if they were all that familiar with the history, perhaps they were Americans and just thought it was a cool statue. But I have to look at that hot mess every day when I walk to work…a constant reminder that slavery is an old joke to most Americans. If we all accept that slavery was a vile, evil practice, then we should have a Monument Avenue devoted to Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, Denmark Vesey, and John Brown, just to provide some balance (especially given Richmond is 40% black). But we don’t. In the great ole commonwealth of VA, you’re a patriot if you have a Confederate flag alongside the American flag. Talking bad about the South’s position in the War will get you a good eye-rolling and cold sholder. And don’t dare mention the Arthur Ashe memorial on Monument Avenue amongst all those proud officers, most of which would have shot his black ass if they had seen him in real life. The outrage behind his memorial still hasn’t blown over completely.
No, white people aren’t suffering any more than any one else. And I’m black and I’m not suffering any more than any one else, not anyone that I know personally. But I’ll be damned if I hear someone say something stupid about slavery without me speaking on it. That wound still stings to me.
Actual black person FTW!
That’s why the term “ethnic” is simply code for “not white,” (or occasionally “not Christian”).
In most of Virginia. Not all of it. Not where I spent the first nineteen years of my life.
I think (and I can think whatever the hell I want to) that slaves would fall over laughing at the thought that a black person today would qualify the ‘wound’ as ‘stinging’.
Many of your opinions (stinging wound) have likely been formed by the twisted spin put on the whole matter. Stop identifying yourself with the past, focus on how you are directly and immediately affected. You were doing such a good job and I thought you were in the clear, right up until the stinging wound comment.
Have some frigging dignity and step out of the past. Focus on what is happening right now. Woe is me. Woe is me.
monstro,
I think you’re reasoning as to why the U.S. might owed blacks reparations is weak. It seems to be solely legal. I think the much stronger argument is the moral one. But as far as the legal one you cite, is it even valid? What authority does a military officer have to parcel out land? Land owned by others? Do you know if Lincoln or the sitting congress approved of Sherman’s doling out of land that was either private (owned by Southerners) or federal (U.S. property after the south’s surrender). I don’t know which was the reality at the end of the war, so I include both possibilities.
Everyone can think whatever they want. I’ve given it some careful consideration, and I think you’re a fucktard.
One of the biggest forms of slavery is being chained to the past and being sold into the “bitch and moan” culture.
Non-Pit debate on the (to me) interesting issue of limitations on victimhood here:
She’s not bitching and moaning, you are. You sound like an old woman, complaining about having to be reminded of such nasty and unpleasant things. I mean, why can’t people just let it go? It’s so… unseemly.
Oh and by the way, exactly what “twisted spin” has been put on slavery?