What thought process has led you to ask this question? Nothing she has written has suggested that she thinks blacks deserve reparations. All she’s done is vented about the dicktitude of people who think it’s cool to honor racist traitors while taking a dismissive attitude towards the history of black folk.
I swear, if I have to smell one more white person crapping their pants about some nonexistent reparations to black people, I’m cutting my nose off.
Hey, don’t drag my thread into your shit-fight. My thread is a debate over reparations generally, and not about merely about your favourite particular example.
If you wish to characterize me as a “White Nationalist” on the basis of that, please go ahead; I will then characterize you as “jumping to conclusions”.
Note that everyone’s favourite idiot Elvis thinks I started that thread in a nefarious attempt to support Zionism. Which brand of nefarious am I anyway - White Nationalist, or Zionist? Dammit, you people have me confused!
What? Where is slavery being practiced in the United States? Is there someplace where the government is enforcing one person’s right to own another in this country?
Fewer than at any time in history. However, enforcing slavery is no longer the policy of the United States government, and the ability of the United States to right every wrong in the world has recently been tested, and found wanting.
Apparently, she is more familiar with General Lee than you are. All Confederate leaders were not alike. Not all of them kidnapped freed blacks in Maryland and Pennsylvania and sent them to Virginia to be slaves. Lee did.
Maybe there’s a point I’m missing here, but is the fact that he was offered a Union command and chose a Confederate command something that’s supposed to make me like him better? Because, um… no.
Untwist your panties, Malthus. I’m not calling you a white nationalist, I’m just saying I’m sick of the same tired old arguments against the non-issue of reparations.
Ironically, I saw another pit thread here (the “Serder Argic” one), and was thinking that FinnAgain does seem awfully aggressive and easy to characterize his opponents as anti-semitic, but I think I can see where he’s coming from. When you see the same old tired shit you begin to recognize the markers, and you get to the point when you’re just not willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe any day now we’ll see statues of McVeigh. He tried to fight the federal govt to advance his beliefs as well.
Pretty much spot on. You get to the point where you have said something so many times to the same person that you know they aren’t listening. I’ve seen the progression in Finn over the last few years on this topic. If you look back at some early threads he was in on the Israel/Palestine subject you will see he goes to excruciating depth in his posts, posting and a fairly calm and reasoned manner (for him ;)) all sorts of historical and demographics facts. Really a wealth of knowledge on the subject (I thought I knew a lot, but learned a ton from him on this subject)…and, it’s like pearls to swine in a lot of cases, as the same numb skulls and mullet heads keep bring up the same tired, stupid arguments. Over and over again. Ad nauseum.
After a while you just automatically dismiss these folks as unreachable, and when they continue to drop their steaming load into the thread you go into snark mode. Sort of like the damn 9/11 CT theories, or the guys who are always coming in with New! Stunning! data concerning how evolution has been overturned, or how ID is the latest thing evah!
-XT
:rolleyes: I asked to find out what her views are. She said that she believs the US has already promised to pay reparations, so I think it’s reasonable to ask whether she thinks the US should do so.
Perhaps, in the interest of historical accuracy and all, you’d like to point out where these “non-colonialized” ancestors came from?
It may be a “non-issue” when it comes to Black slavery, but it is an issue very much alive in other historical contexts.
It was some of the participants in this here thread that got to arguing about this particular “non-issue” in the thread I started. If they are sick of the “tired old shit”, then the remedy surely lies in their own hands.
To reiterate: you (and it seems they) are jumping to conclusions. First you jump to the conclusion that a thread about reparations for historic grievance is all about the particular grievance of interest to you, and then you jump to the conclusion that discussing this issue is a “marker” (your term), for what? White nationalism?
It is interesting to see that other participants in the thread jumped to the conclusion that the thread was “all about” the historic grievance of interest to them (namely Israel/Palestine). They saw a completely contradictory set of “markers”. Seems to me that alone is an interesting result, no?
They probably jumped to that conclusion because they recognize you as a voice who often sides with Israel (just as you probably recognize Elvis as a Israel critic). Not saying that’s a justified conclusion, but I seriously doubt that if your name was free from this association, anyone would be talking about Israel in that thread to a significant degree. Jewish reparations are a done deal and rarely argued about here.
She pointed out a historical fact as a counterpoint to someone arguing that African chieftans be the ones to pay reparations.
Since the issue of reparations was raised by someone else, it actually makes more sense that you trouble them with your question. monstro has repeatedly said on this board that she doesn’t believe in slavery reparations.
Certainly that has something to do with it, but I disagree with your conclusions - the multiple grievances of the Israel/Palestine situation are something I certanly considered and were considered in the article I linked to in the OP.
In the Israel/Palestine affair grievances run both ways, and the “hot topic” isn’t reparations for Jews for the Holocaust, but the Palestinian so-called “Right of Return” (and contrasting arguments for Shephardim re Arab countries).
Though note that this situation would not be covered by a historical limitations period any more than the Holocaust would, as there are people now alive who were directly affected in both cases (give it a few years and that will no longer be true).
It was raised by Argent Towers, and monstro quite reasonably responded that if African slavers’ descendants should be paying reparations then so should American slavers’ descendants, or the government, or whoever. She earlier perfectly reasonably pointed out that black people are still suffering from the lingering aftereffects of slavery.
She then less reasonably contined the debate with ashman somethingsomething, and certainly appeared to be arguing that the US ought to be paying reparations at that point, whatever she’s said here before.
Personally, I think Argent’s argument is silly; if slaves’ descendants are legally entitled to reparations from two parties, then just because one isn’t paying doesn’t mean the other one doesn’t have to. Claims for reparations from African citizens or states would have to be made in African courts, under African (or international) law, and whether or not those claims are granted is immaterial to whether claims in American courts should or would be.
In general, I think monstro’s been quite reasonable here, but I can see why people think she’s arguing for reparations.
[tongueincheek]Of course, that’s because anyone who argues against me is necessarily unreasonable. I might not always be right, but dammit I’m never wrong. QED [/tongueincheek] :dubious:
“Historical fact” my ass. A promise to certain blacks by a US general over 100 years ago has nothing to do with reparations as currently debated, and characterizing the earlier promise as a promise by the US government to make reparations for slavery (which is what monstro did) is completely stupid.
Question – the reparations paid to Japanese Americans for the internment camps – I assume they were only given to those who actually interned, and possibly family members? (Such as, children whose parents had passed away). But not just ALL Japanese Americans?
Just those Japanese interred or their immediate families (I believe it was something like $20-30k each). Not all Japanese American’s.
-XT
I think you mean “interned”. I don’t think any Japanese were rounded up and buried. Not in the U.S. anyway.
Hey, I think there probably should be a National Association for the Advancement of White People. For all white people, not just those born with silver spoons in their mouths. The rest of it, though, I agree.