Inspired by the American Pie thread, where supposedly young fundie muslims are being showed this movie to show them how perverted and depraved Americans are.
How is it that in this day and age people are being raised to hate Americans for the simple fact that Americans are bad because their leader says we are bad? Am I to think that original thought and moral value are not a fostered characteristic among fundie muslim societies?
The recent vote in Iraq where Saddam won by 100% is a complete joke and I wonder why people going to school at the University of Bagdad do not have the same demonstrations against their leaders as we do at say…U.C. Berkeley? Or why other predominently muslim nations don’t see this kind of thing as different or out of whack.
I wonder what would happen if someone like Saddam was driven around America and shown that some people in this Country have signs on their lawns saying ‘No War with Iraq’ - would he change his mind?
I know that is completely overly simplistic but I find it hard to believe so many fundie muslim countries think ALL Americans are the devil incarnate and should be wiped from the earth.
Just how ignorant are these people?
I don’t think they all do. I’d suspect that there are citizens of Middle-Eastern countries that have a darn good idea that their news sources may be more than a little biased… although hearing about those particular people don’t make much good news for CNN. It’s in their best interests to milk the “news” as much as they can.
I’ve even heard of the odd speech from Sadamn alluding to him feeling sorry for the US public since they’ve got such an evil government, or something to that respect.
As a side, being a Canadian I sometimes like watching US news (especially CNN). Hearing the US spin on news items is sometimes quite entertaining on its own.
I agree with the OP. Only one thing can save them from such ignorance: Cecil Adams. I say The Straight Dope should be published in local Middle Eastern newspapers, as well as al-Jazeera.
Phlosphr: I wonder why people going to school at the University of Bagdad do not have the same demonstrations against their leaders as we do at say…U.C. Berkeley?
You want pro-reform student demonstrations? Check out Iran’s Tehran University.
How is it that in this day and age people are being raised to hate Americans for the simple fact that Americans are bad because their leader says we are bad?
Unfortunately, that type of fallacious thinking isn’t limited to “non-U.S. supporters.” Ignorance is a horrible epidemic all over the world.
Kimstu I agree. Ignorance is a horrible epidemic all over the globe. I was going to bring up Tehran University but because it is in Iran I left it out to preserve the Iraq distinction.
Latro said:
I never said Saddam was declaring war on America…
…and I beg your pardon, I’m here to fight ignorance and to learn something from time to time… calm down chief.
Swap some of the terms around and see what it sounds like.
Pretend that an Islamic Fundamentalist is speaking:
An American’s response to him would be, “Not all Americans think that–you’re just hearing the loudest ones. Those are the ones who hate you the most. The ones who don’t believe that don’t stand up and holler about it.”
So an Islamic Fundamentalist would give you the same answer: “Not all Islamic Fundamentalists think that–you’re just hearing the loudest ones. Those are the ones who hate you the most. The ones who don’t believe that don’t stand up and holler about it.”
I suggest that to abolish ignorance all peoples should be able to mingle very freely, like living under the same roof and using the same bathroom, and eating together.
If Bush and his people would only live with Saddam and his people under the same roof, using the same bathrooms, and eating together, they would not be harboring thoughts of war and violence against each other.
Perhaps it’s because they don’t want to be killed? That’s what Saddam DOES to political opponents. He has managed to stay in power all this time because he’s utterly ruthless - and the populace knows it.
It is true that the Baathists seem just as eager to torture Muslims as Christians, and that Christians have high positions in the Iraqi government. However, Saddam’s propaganda makes extensive use of Islamic themes. Truth is, the old torturer and his goverment of rapists is probably far less anti-religion than a great many posters here.
I wonder if a higher percentage of Muslims know that their media outlets are biased than Americans who know theirs is. Consider how popular it was for a while to have debates on “is Islam an evil religion?” Can you imagine CNN or Foxnews having a debate on whether Christianity or Judiasm are evil at heart? For that matter, there doesn’t seem to really be that much outrage at the fundie Christian right media outlets and commentators who seem to regularly blast Islam and its practitioners–yet their vitriol seems hardly less bigoted than that of fundie Islam.
Of course, how about all the Americans who don’t know that Muslim does not equal Arab, or that Saddam has been a secular head of a secular state (although he has recently begun to put on a pious show) and is not a fundie Muslim? How many Americans know that Muslims and Christians worship the same god, but only a different “revelation” of him? And how about the SNL actor who can’t even get a Turkish accent right?
We bear full blame for the ample ignorance on our side of the fence, especially because we give such lip service to freedom and doing the right thing and democracy, etc.–we’ve taken on a burden we refuse to carry.
This is the most ass backwards OP I’ve seen in a long time. A complete ignoramus complaining about ignorance.
What and American leaders only tell the truth? After reading your post you clearly know zilch about Iraq or American foreign policy except what you’ve picked up from CNN soundbites. On second though you sound more like a Fox News fan. And you’re accusing other people from less educated countries of falling prey to propaganda?
How about because they and their families would be tortured and killed by an evil autocrat that the US installed in the 60’s to kill commies, and supported and armed as recently as 1988 to kill Islamic fundies
Change his mind about what? When did Saddam announce a plan to attack the US? Last I heard it was Bush that was going to preemptively attack him.
Over simplistic doesn’t even begin to cover it. There is a small faction of extremists that want to wipe America off the map the other 90% of the ummah (Muslim community) would be perfectly fine with coexisting with the West…… if we would acknowledge and stop our imperialist interventions and end the Israel conflict. Until then they’ll grab onto any person they think can help their cause. Even murdering psychos like Osama. When you believe your survival is at stake, you’d be amazed how quickly your conception of morality gets adjusted.
Either that, or he’s not stupid, and by playing to the majority religion in his country and region, he can garner a lot of sympathy as a ‘defender of the faith’… Saddam does not strike me as a stupid man.
You have started a GD about the ignorance of Anti-US FundiMuslimarians with arguments that appear to be exclusively based on CNN headlines and GWB speeches.
As others have pointed out, there are many examples that highlight the ignorance of the West. Its the same thing.
The majority of FundiMuslimarians are ignorant of the West for somewhat the same reason that the majority of the West is ignorant of Islam: we accept the news that is presented by our mainstream press as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Our media outlets are biased towards traditional christian beliefs (that is to be expected) and at the lower level, the press will be more likely to report stories that enforce these values (give the people what they want) and the government will be happy because the news favourably portrays their agenda. The majority of people get their daily ‘news’ from these sources and thus they never hear the ‘Peacefull Arab’ story, just lots and lots of ‘AK47 holding Anti-US’ stories. Hence the negative opinion of all Muslims. Ignorance: A horrible Epidemic among human beings.
How is America supposed to end the Israel conflict? By pulling out all American troops? Or perhaps the President could host peace talks between the leaders of the respective nations - that’s never been done before. Or maybe if every American claps and says “I believe in fairies,” the Palestinians and Israelies will agree on a compromise solution that everyone can be happy with.
After all, the only obstacle to peace between Palestine and Israel is obviously the West.
Peace talks is what I had in mind. You prefer war?
And no the West isn’t entirely to blame. Any nation that engages in de fato colonialsm is to blame. Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Taiwan and Tibet all have monkey on their back. The monkies think they have fleas.
But, the Islamist aren’t blameless either, and their equally unlikely to admit fault for supporting extremism when other proven tactics like non-violent demostration are readily available.
The bottom line is I want everyone to talk this shit out, Bush wants to cut to the chase and start killing people.