Am I the only one who’s noticed a recent rise of the use of “segway” when people mean “segue”? I blame it on Dean Kamen.
When writing, I feel that the only appropriate place for spelling words the way they’re spoken, or incorrect grammar, is in fictional dialogue. In that instance, it is sometimes appropriate for establishing a character.
For example, if your fictional character is not a native English speaker, then it is okay to write his dialogue as broken English when he is attempting to speak English. But when that same character is speaking his native language (where it’s understood that he’s speaking his native language, even though you’re writing it in English) then the grammar should be presented correctly.
Say the scene is an immigrant asking you where the bathroom is. Since he’s attempting to ask his question in English, it’s acceptable to write the dialogue as, “Please, the toilet, to be telling where is it?” But if the same character is asking the same question of another speaker of his language, then the question should be phrased properly: “Please, can you tell me where the bathroom is.”
In no case should the narration be written this way.
MyFootsZZZ: Your arguments are not valid.
In the grass example, saying “the grass is blue” is just as correct as saying “the grass is green”. You have an adjective [colour] describing a noun [grass]. You are absolutely right that no particular word could be said to be right or wrong; you can use pretty much any adjective to modify any noun to bring about whatever artistic meaning you want. But in these cases, it still makes grammatical sense: adjectives modify nouns. “The grass is orange” works, but “the grass is run” doesn’t make sense. That is WRONG.
The point is yes, you can choose any words you want to convey an artistic sense or meaning, regardless of whether or not they have a logical basis. However, your words must still be arranged in a way that makes grammatical sense.
As for the “you know what I mean” argument, that also fails. At some point, a piece of writing may become so full of spelling errors and bad grammar that I don’t know what you mean. Where do you draw the line? By implementing rules for the english language, it is ensured that everyone will always understand “what you mean”.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dwc1970 *
[li] Overuse/misuse of punctuation. I get stories in which each sentence spoken by the same speaker has its own quote marks. I also get stories. like this, in which commas appear, every third word, or so, and, it’s, quite annoying, to say, the least. Others will use commas where periods should appear and vice versa.[/li][/QUOTE]
I suspect I am one of these people. I was taught somewhere along the line to use a comma whereever I would pause in spoken communication. So, that’s, what, I, do.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MyFootsZZZ *
Except they do. Words have very specific meanings – definitions. If you stray beyond those definitions, you are either being unclear, or you are being ignorant. It is the job of those who are expressing themselves to clearly communicate. Therefore, you cannot use “blue” for “green.” Both words have very specific definitions – green isn’t just a concept, it is a specific frequency of lightwaves. You can’t use “green” to describe something that is blue, or blue for something that is green, and be anything but wrong.
Verbal language is a specific and defined form of expression, meant to communicate. It is not amorphous like painting, music or other forms of expressive artwork. Words mean things, specific things, and to use them in ways that violate those meanings is to use them impoperly.
Green can never be blue, and can never be properly called blue, to go back to your example.
Then you really don’t understand language. Because there is a right way and a wrong way. The accepted definition of a word is the right way, anything else is either poetic, or the wrong way. If its poetic, then that should be clear from the context. If it is just using the wrong word for some ignorant reason, then the person speaking is wrong, and a very poor communicator to boot.
[hijack] Kentucky is the Bluegrass State[/hijack]
I agree with the “you know what I mean” arguement failing. I have an odd form of dyslexia. I get my directions mixed up. I’ll be riding with someone and I’ll tell them to go right. However, in my miswired mind I mean left. Because ** I **know what I mean doesn’t make the driver any less peeved. A rule has been established that right is right and left is left. Bcause I say right means left doesn’t make one bit of sense to the driver. You could say it’s his problem that he is mad, but if you were in his spot, wouldn’t you be too?
You can apply the same thing to the written word. Poor grammar is like trying work a maze in dim light-- fustrating for the person trying to decypher it. If you’re not specific and you don’t use a style that is familiar to everyone else, you not only earn most readers’ ire but you lose credibility too. Many might even lose interest and stop reading, even if it’s something you really feel they should know.
The rules of grammar and spelling exist for a reason. That’s why we spend so much time on them and why you have an English class every year that you attend school.
To defend incorrectness is to rationalize it. “My way is just as good as your way.” No…it’s not. We both know it’s wrong. You are just trying to make yourself feel better about it.
In the blue/green example, you have to distinguish between grammatical correctness and factual correctness. “The grass is blue” is grammatically correct but factually wrong. “Green the is grass” may vaguely suggest a fact, but is grammatically wrong.
Whoever taught This Year’s Model to use a comma for any pause was either lazy or ill-informed. There is a specific set of rules for the correct use of commas.
One of the problems is that people often are confused or uninformed about the difference between speech, casual writing and formal writing. Good casual writing is closer to spoken syntax, but formal writing is an entirely different matter.
The point I was trying to make was that the word “grass” or the world “blue” are all things that were made by man, not made by nature; and if one were to make up their own way of describing things, (being the antisocial schmucks they probably are), I don’t think they are “wrong”. In fact, words other than “green” do exist describing the color of grass that might not make sense to most of us. Of course I’m talking about foreign languages. Saying the grass is green could even be considered too vague. Is the grass really completely the literal color green, or is it a variation of green? Let alone that, not only are different strands on your lawn colored slightly different, each strand has multiple colors of green and yellow, (and blue and red) variations.
If you were born on an island that bared two or three other people, and they among themselves found their own primitive language used to describe things and communicate, you can’t really tell them that they are wrong when they start calling the grass something wacky.
NOW, I know what you are saying… they AREN’T wrong in calling grass whatever it is they call grass because language primarily used to communicate. Anyone who generally speaks English and starts talking about how the grass is “blue” IS a failure to communicate. YES. I, however don’t think they are any less “wrong” or “right” for saying it. That’s not to say I wouldn’t have a strange reaction to what they said, because when people speak, you figure it happens so others can hear what you’re saying. You could call the grass, “is”, or “cuekanutt” or “whatever”.
The reason I used this as an example is because I think you have license to bend or break the rules for any type of expression. It’s basically the “right” way because you told me so. I know with that logic you could call me Shitface instead of my real name. I guess people have the right to express themselves any way that they please, and you have a right to ignore it. Being a person that lives their life in constant “failure” as far as there being a “right” place to put the fork and a “right” place to put the spoon, because each time I do set a table, (doesn’t happen much) can’t remember for shit where to put anything, I don’t like to be told I’m wrong for something so petty. Same with language. If I use slang words to mask my inability to spell the “right” word, I don’t think it should be a big deal. I do agree with you at the same time though. You have already stated that it’s not as if you’re looking for someone who types things perfectly, so to be honest, I have no problem with you. It’s just that one common error that bothers you. For someone who nitpicks the little shit, it becomes insulting. Suggestions are fine, but if you really give a shit that I don’t type or write in a way that you don’t like, but can understand, then it pisses me off. It is insulting. You’re not, though. You have a good reason for you beef, and I failed to recognize that at first. I don’t wish to be a failure in communication. So if there’s ever a time that you don’t understand what I’m say, I would appreciate some help.
I couldnta said it better.
Errors such as those presented in the OP and dwc1970’s post bother me to no end, but another form of “netspeak” grates on my nerves even more.
I have never, ever understood the “abbreviations” and “shorthand” used for words that end up being longer than the real word. Mix in some bad grammar and punctuation, and I’m afraid I can’t stomach reading it.
“mah dawgz n meeh r goin 2 da store 2 git sum food…we all shoud of gone yesterdayz, but we was tired…ish aite tho cuz mah momz pickd up sum dinner on hur way home”
What really bothers me is when people actually WRITE things the wrong way… Short hand, I can barely stand all you have to do is just add a few letters, and then you’ll be fine.
During essay assignments at school, people would write inside the essay horrible netspeak and “cool” ways to write things. Every time we have to do a writing assignment, we have to do peer editing so we can get it the best way we can so we can be ready for 8th grade and higher grades later in life. Well, I expected everyone to at least be able to know what to write in an essay and how to write it, but I was wrong.
One time we had to write about how our vacation was, Spring Break or Winter Break, and so I thought, “This won’t be too hard, and editing someone’s won’t be hard either.” Well, usually I get all of the really bad, illiterate people in class. This time was the worst EVER. It never takes me the entire hour to edit someone’s work, it usually takes at most 20 minutes, maybe even just rarely 25. But no, this person was so horrible, it took the entire hour, and this is an exact quote from their essay:
“lyke wun tyme wile i wuz at mah fwend’z hows…”
What is the point in that? I mean, it’s not “cool” it’s just stupid; it’s not “original” because sadly a lot of people use it; it’s not “literate” because, just look at it!
Those people really annoy me because there is, or was, more then one like that in my class. So every time we had to edit someone’s, I dreaded it, every single time. I didn’t want to have to get frustrated over people that wouldn’t have the patience to just write things normally, at least sane.
::applauds Phase42::
There are people, I fear, who have gone beyond being illiterate and are descending into languagelessness.
I thought there was a periodical convention at which professors debated proper usage and approved widely accepted new words, grammatical technique per se, etc. At least, that’s what my senior English teacher told us. Can someone please advise?
And (I didn’t see if anyone said this already), I think that the increasing tolerance for spelling mistakes in posts is due to a mass-recognition that we haven’t the ability to edit our posts, and that piddely-dink “correction” posts i.e. ‘Whoops! I mean such not suck’ merely waste bandwidth.
I’m so glad I finished my last ever english class before the influx of netspeak. People always wanted me to edit their work; I would’ve gone crazy attempting to parse that stuff.
Eh. That sort of thing doesn’t phase me much.
Aaack!! FAZE, not PHASE! (I hope you did that deliberately?)
Or “Here here!” for “Hear hear!”
There’s a bunch more that I can’t think of right now…but I think the descent into languagelessness is approaching the edge of the precipice for a huge portion of the population.
Well, so far we have:
whereever
arguement
non-plussed
People on these message board…
…people who will post a messages…
…rules for the english language…
impoperly
If its poetic, then…
Bcause
QED’s is a 
andros’s “phase” is a whoosh.
Gaudere, how are we doing? 
I really hate "When it’s finished, submit it to either Bill or myself…".
As Tikki said, leave the reference to Bill out of the sentence and if it sounds wrong, it is.
OK, what do you mean here by “bared”?
“If you were born on an island that bore only”…as in had only two or three other people?
Or “had borne”? Like, only those others and you had been born there, or had the others been borne (carried) there?
Or bared, as in “She flipped her skirt up and bared her butt.”
I’m confuzzled.
I’m also VERY dyslexic.
BTW, “all intensive purposes” makes me go ballistic, whether spoken or written. It’s my own personal pet peeve. (NOT peave.) And I pet it soundly about the ears with a bat whenever I hear it.
Hahaha, “Bore”