I'll be damned if you fuck with my flying, asshole

All else aside, I will say this.

Broomstick is an excellent pilot.
No, I’ve never had the opportunity to fly with her, not yet anyway. Someday I will, but the opportunity has not presented itself.

I don’t say this because other people have told me she’s an excellent pilot, though this has happened.

I don’t say this because her record is good, though it is.

I say this because Broomsick is not a lucky person, No, she’s not unlucky, she has a good life and she’s happy. She’s just not the type of person who has gone through life in a series of serendipitous accidents which have left her with perfect health and a huge bank account.

A lucky person might just get away with being a mediocre pilot. If you have a little bit of luck, you might get by with a little less skill, as long as your luck holds out.

Without that luck, you need skill to still be alive. A lot of skill, and it better be well-honed enough that it’s second nature when you’re in the left seat.

Broomstick is very much alive.

And I long ago learned never to irritate her when she’s pissed.

b.

Try to recognize when people are laughing ‘with’ you and when they are laughing ‘at’ you.

Holy shit!

Watch out! Incoming adults! :smack:

All I gotta say is:

:wally

No. You’re right. He doesn’t. You’re not in the military, so your boss can’t order you to do anything or not do anything off the clock.

Fuck 'em. What are they gonna do? Stalk you all weekend to make sure you don’t go to the airport? Have a PI follow you around and take pictures? Do your own thing. Hell, fly a couple of figure-eights over your office.

This is one of those times I recall the words of some dead-poet guy (I think Thoreau): Civil Disobedience: Ignore and disobey an unlawful, illegal, or bad request.

Tripler
Personally, I like flying in uncomfortable airplanes on-the-clock. Makes me feel like John Wayne.

You know, you pretty much had me on your side until this. You just hit one of my biggest pet peeves here. Normally decent people turn into giant boors and when they’re called on their behavior, they whine, “but this is the PIIIIIIIIIIT! I can fucking cuss if I wanna!” Cussing is just fine, but you can certainly be civil and have a sense of humor while saying fuck.

One can take things very seriously and still be able to laugh about it, too. It is possible, and people won’t think less of you. Really. I promise you.

In double checking the thread, I realized Euty took the response I had to this–and was even nicer about it.

Honey just take a nice deep breath and back away from the joystick. You are working yourself up into a righteous lather.

As far as I can tell, some higher up who was performing a little task attempted to make some light conversation with you about a subject he knew was dear to your heart, ie: flying.

He didn’t forbid you to pursue your hobbies, he didn’t issue some offical memo stating that employees are no longer allowed to travel to Washington DC or ride a bike or drive a car or fly a plane. He made a comment akin to “Hey, let’s be careful out there”. It’s called chit chat. You are going to have to participate in a lot of it in your lifetime. I’d suggest you just get used to it.

So you are a pilot. Good for you, really. But honestly it is not that big a deal. I know 17 year old boys and 67 year old grandmas who are pilots.

I think talking about a subject and reacting disproportionately every time someone attempts to join in the conversation is the same as painting your face green, dying your hair purple then screaming “What are you looking at?” whenever someone gives you a second glance. People may notice or even comment on things you do to draw attention to yourself but really no one cares.

Would it be OK if I fuck someone else while you are flying? No anal, I promise.

Cause, you know that would be cool. I don’t care how big a 747 is, there still isn’t enough room for two adults to really get it on in those little bathrooms.

IMO, next time he gives you that “too dangerous for a young lady” you might look at him and tell him that he needs to be careful how he addresses his employees lest he be looking at a sexual harassment suit.

Kickass rant, babe. You go, girl. :smiley:

I think that not only should you fly this weekend, but also you should buzz Mr. Patronizing’s house.

Fuck that SOB, I would NOT work for an asshole period. Especially with the resume that you have. I won’t put up with that shit from nobody and never have. Walk into his office and tell him to eat shit.

Goddamn a bunch whining and bitching behind his back and talking about him to others. Be a fucking adult and tell him to his sorryass, shit for brains, know it all, ignorant fucking FACE. Fuck him…quit that worthless fucking hell hole and go somewhere that you can do WHATtheFUCKever you want!!!

I’d like to put his fucking lights out, but fuck a lawsuit.

Yeah! Hoorah motherfucker and Semper-Fi

Now, see, THERE’s the problem - some joker blasts into the thread, states he couldn’t be bothered to read the OP, and makes a smart ass remark. No smilies, no “(ha ha - just kidding…)”, no indication that he is laughing at all, much less with or against.

So, am I supposed to analyse every post extensively? Read posters minds? Use a divining rod? There is NOTHING in Jack Batty’s initial post that indicates to me that he is being sarcastic or making a funny or whatever the hell you think he was doing. If he WAS trying to be funny he should make it clear that’s what he’s doing, lest his text be misunderstood. Happens often enough with us native speakers of English - I can only imagine what the ESL folks go through. And since he DID apologize I’ll throttle back on the invective

On to the next issue:

Yes, hon, you may join the Mile High Club in an airplane I pilot. You might want to tell me beforehand, so I can let you know when we officially reach One Mile High. I also ask that you spread a dropcloth in the backseat, or some sort of sheet, and clean up any spills since currently I’m a renter and really don’t want to be charged for cleaning bills. As for what sort of sex - that is the business of you and the consenting adults involved. If everyone wants anal I can handle that, as long as you’re OK with me flying instead of fucking (priorities, ya know…)

Um… yes, actually, he did. He stated quite plainly “I don’t want you flying this weekend, it’s much too dangerous for a young lady such as yourself. In fact, I would feel much better if you gave that up entirely.”

Damn! Next time I should ALSO point out that I’m getting old enough that “young lady” is patronizing and insulting and not a compliment. Even if he is 20 years older than me.

Yes, he actually did do just that. I’m sorry, was that unclear? He not only e-mailed it to the staff, he also distributed a written memo. Another co-worker who actually WAS planning to take her children to DC for a long planned vacation (as opposed to business trip) this week was also reamed out and scolded and told not to go. She ignored him, too. Same reasoning - he can forbid a business trip, but not a personal trip.

No - it was NOT chit-chat. He was NOT saying “let’s be careful” - he was stating, quite plainly, “I don’t want you to do that.”

Hey, I understand the “chit-chat” of “Hey, you still flying? Gosh, is that dangerous? I don’t think I’d do that” versus “I don’t want you to fly anymore, I don’t care how you feel about it.”

Nor is this the first time he’s expressed his “concern” and displeasure. Lots of comments about how he doesn’t think general aviation is safe or necessary, how it should be left entirely to the military and the “professionals”, how I don’t need to fly, how I’m wasting my money, how I should invest that money in a retirement fund or buy a house or just do SOMETHING other than “wasting” it on a dangerous and unnecessary activity.

But, because of the ORANGE ALERT and the war he now sees this as an argument for me to once and for all give up what he sees as foolishness and reckless disregard for my own health and safety. Mayor Daley is asking for a no-fly zone over Chicago - can’t I see how dangerous and serious this is? Doesn’t this convince me, FINALLY, how insanely stupid this is?

Well, actually, no - Daley is a fucking idiot, with the nickname “Dumb-Dumb”. He never saw an airplane he didn’t hate. He’s an asshole.

Strictly speaking, I don’t work for him, I work for one of his underlings. I seldom have contact with him. Which is probably for the best.

Um… have you tried job-hunting lately? If the economy was better I’d consider it, but not right now. Did I mention that if I quit I lose the income that allows me to fly until I get a comparable job? I can stay and fly - or quit and stop for a while. Possibly months.

It’s not a “worthless fucking hellhole”, it’s actually a pretty decent place to work most of the time - particularly since I don’t have to deal with him very often. My immediate boss is a nervous nellie about flying, too - but doesn’t give me grief for doing it. In fact, she thinks it’s kinda neat. Working there actually DOES allow me to do pretty much whatever the fuck I want, in fact.

However - if he ever DID tell me to choose between flying and that job I’d pick flying in a heartbeat.

Roger on the flying - did 1.4 hours today, with a 3 hour trip planned for tomorrow to Fulton County (weather permitting). And, despite my five week hiatus, I did quite well.

However buzzing someone’s house is not only dangerous but illegal. It would only confirm the VP’s opinion of GA pilots as dangerous lunatics - and I will not do that. Have you heard the best revenge is living well? In this case, the best revenge is flying well.

“When planes are outlawed, only outlaws will have planes.”

Look, I’m Skeptic #1 around here when it comes to calling bio/chem weapons “weapons of mass destruction.” But even I’m willing to admit that there’s a decent chance that such weapons could be used to kill hundreds, maybe thousands of people at once if properly dispersed in a populated area. Like with a small plane over a large city.

We had 9/11. Then we had the anthrax scare. Of course people are concerned with what a terrorist might do with a small plane and some other, erm, stuff. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that part of the price of protecting ourselves against such an attack might be to keep planes from flying over the downtowns of our largest cities, excepting commercial jets on their takeoff/landing patterns.

I can understand that you’re upset about what your head honcho said. And justifiably so, IMHO. But all I have to say about this other rant is: grow up. Realize that one small part of your recreation isn’t more important than everyone else’s safety.

Negative. Too hard on engines.

RTFirefly: Gonna have to call you on this one, bud. A rental truck can be *and has been *used as a weapon of mass destruction. I am unaware of any light aircraft that has. There was a case last year where a teenaged student pilot flew his rented Cessna into a building. Not a lot of damage. But

Commercial jets have been used to kill thousands.

A General Aviation aircraft just doesn’t have the capacity to carry the amount of explosives to cause a lot of damage. Sure, a cropduster has a hopper that can be loaded with chemical or biological weapons; but how many cropdusters are there around large cities? Who’s going to rent you one? Wouldn’t it make more sense to put an atomizer on a pick-up truck and spray your toxins that way? In a way that wouldn’t get much attention?

And “part of the price of protecting ourselves”? Please! Part of living in a free society is not giving up freedom for security. Would that the government understood this!

We’ve got to stop these people who need to “do something”, but who are entirely clueless regarding the methods they use.

Broomstick: I hope you take some video of yourself flying, so that you can give it to your boss.

Hey Broomstick, I’m not exactly sure what particular line of work your company is involved in, or how high and mighty your boss thinks he may be, but I know four little letters that may be of interest to you:

A. C. L. U.

Nobody can dictate what you do or don’t do off the clock. I’m sure one call to these guys would put some pressure on your boss if it came to that point.

Tripler
I’m serious. What’s yer boss gonna do, stalk you to make sure?

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say it isn’t possible. Full fuel payload on an old Cherokee Six is somewhere around 1,000 lbs. If that were all TNT, you could probably make a pretty big boom.

There’s two parts to the “danger” RTFirefly has raised and Dr Lao has seconded:

First of all What is a general aviation aircraft?

Broadly defined, it’s anything not military or airline. But a particular aircraft is not defined as exclusively “military” or “airline”. The military, after all, uses unmanned remote control aircraft - essentially extremely sophisticated model aircraft - up through 2 seat aircraft on up to B-52 superfortresses. Military aircraft can also by decommissioned and sold to civilians, turning a military aircraft into general aviation. A Boeing 707 is generall presumed to be an airliner - but John Travolta owns and flies his own 707, which makes that particular airplane a general aviation jet.

So yes, a Cherokee Six would most definiately qualify as a “general aviation” small airplane. And certainly, they are used for light cargo on occassion.

However, MOST of the airplanes affect by the Chicago TFR are even smaller than the Cherokee Six - because the vast majority of small planes are the 2- and 4-seat Cessnas and Pipers whose ability to haul any sort of payload is limited.

Second, What is the threat, really?

Some of you may not be aware of this, but outside of cities and suburbs, at small airfields, GA pilots occassionally indulge in something called “air drop” or “bomb drop” or “flour drop” games. When done as fun precautions are taken to ensure no harm comes to anyone or anything, and the neighbors are customarially warned so as not to be alarmed. But basically, we put a target on the ground, fly over at about 500 feet, and drop stuff out of the airplane, trying to hit the target.

I bring this up, to counteract the Omigod, they’re going to drop stuff out of an airplane! fear. Dr. Lao have YOU ever tried to drop something out of an airplane? I have. It needs to be discreet lumps, which is why when we use bags of flour we double and triple bag them. Know what happens when you try to throw a powder out of a small plane? I do. Due to the air currents around the fuselage the dust/powder comes back inside the airplane. This happens with amateurs trying to disperse cremation ashes a couple times a year - they stick the box out a door or window, up end the container, and back at the airport they’re vacuuming gramps out of the back seat and cargo area.

This is why crop sprayers have the elaborate attachments they do - to get the spray away from the fuselage. However cropsprayers are kept under observation and not permitted near cities. The equipment used to make the sprayers, attach them, and so forth is pretty closely monitored, too.

But a 4-seat trainer Cessna or Piper? I’m sorry, the likelihood of dumping a bag of anthrax over a city is near nil. You could maybe drop a bowling ball or three out of one, but while you might knock off a couple people that way it’s not a weapon of mass destruction.

As Johnny and a multitude of others have pointed out, a Ryder truck full of diesel fuel and fertilizer is a far more effective building buster than a small GA plane - yet we allow comparable sized trucks to enter cities all the time without going through a security check.

It is the big jets that are the real threats to big cities. So it is STUPID to ban small planes yet let those dangerous, potential cruise missles, to continue to fly over a large city. There are privately owned big jets, even aside from the potential uses of hijacking. It’s a big Boeing or Airbus that can take down a building, not a C172. For that matter, you could load up an airliner fuel tank with something noxious then vent it over a city, too - the big boys are MUCH more dangerous than the little guys. A fact the airlines spend a lot of time and effort trying to keep under wraps.

And let’s look at that Chicago TFR and see just how fucking useless it is for its stated purpose.

First of all, it only extends up to 3000 feet. Since the minimum recommended safe altitude over the Loop was already 2400 feet, this is a pitiful change. A small plane can STILL fly over the Loop, just that the pilot has to stay at 3000 feet. 600 feet higher. I doubt very much someone on the ground would be able to tell the altitude difference. Waivers can be had for newsreporting and, more importantly, for things such as air ambulances for the hospitals in the TFR - so there are STILL small aircraft flying, mostly helicoptors - but what is said of small airplanes also applies to them. Except, given the rotor downwash, you CAN disperse powders or liquids out of them by upending a box or bottle so really, the GA that ARE potentially Bad Stuff Dispersers are the ones still flying over downtown.

Meigs field and the lakeside VFR flyway are still open. Which means small planes will still be cruising just off shore up and down the lakefront. So… um… how are you going to STOP a small aircraft from making a 90 degree turn and a beeline for a big building? Hmmm? 2 miles offshore, traveling at 120 mph (that’s a SLOW plane), make a sharp turn, it’s 3 miles to the Sears Tower - that’s a minute and a half. In a slow plane. There are plently of 200 mph GA out there, they’d make the trip even faster. Hell, take it up to the redline airspeed you can make the trip in under a minute. *What the fuck is going to catch them?*Nothing. Unless you’re actively flying F-16 patrols over the area. Oh, wait, we have a war going on, maybe we don’t have the F-16’s to spare…

This “TFR” is a USELESS “feel good” measure that does jackshit other than inconvenience people.

Let’s look at another stupidity - requiring flight plans. This is obviously thought up by someone who has no clue what a flight plan IS. It’s not a tether. It’s a description of your intended route of travel. For IFR pilots, it gives them a slot in the instrument flying system. For VFR pilots, it lets the rescure and recovery team know where to look for airplane wreckage and body parts. THAT’S IT.

May I remind everyone of one very important, indisputable fact? Every last one of the September 11 hijacked airplanes was on a flight plan. Every one. And this did… what? I mean, how did this “prevent” problems? How did this enable anyone to intercept them? How is filing-a-flight-plan-to-prevent-terrorism supposed to work? Explain this to me, please. I really really DO want to know.

Yes, we should track airplanes around big cities. We already do, in fact. We’ve been doing it for years with radar and transponder requirements and yes, flight plans. It works very well for traffic control. It does jackshit for prevention of mayhem. Why? Because there is NOTHING you can do, short of anti-aircraft fire or SAM’s, to prevent ANY size aircraft from deviating from a flight plan. Got that?

In other words, these 3-10 mile radius, no small airplane TFR’s are useless gestures to appease ignorant and/or stupid people who’d rather have a “feel good” gesture than face the truth or pay to install REAL city defenses. Mayors ask for them, because having one means your city is important enough to inconvenience and disrupt air travel to no good purpose. It’s bullshit, OK?

Maybe you disagree? OK - then EXPLAIN how the current TFR actually does anything to protect Chicago.

So, in actuality…you have an excellent job doing something you love. A boss you you rarely see. You get to do practically whatever the fuck you want to do.
AND You get paid well to do this job.

So, out of concern for your safety and (HIS?) plane…this BOSS asked you to take a vacation.

It’s your rant but I think there are probably lots of folks who wish they had it that rough. :rolleyes:

Sorry to put a damper on the fire, esp. here in the pit. I really was enjoying myself there for awhile. Now, if you want to hear about some really BAD SHIT, Let me tell ya’… :wink:

No, really fuck him. BUT, don’t quit until you’ve got a better job guaranteed. BTW, I don’t mean to actually fuck, although… :smiley:

Not to speak for Broomstick, but I’m under the impression that she rents aircraft and that the company does not have one. Also, there are some people who still think that “girls” can’t or shouldn’t do “man stuff” – like flying. I think there are two issues here (again, not to put words into Broomstick’s mouth): First, that the boss was attempting to regulate what she does in her free time, probably based on his own unwarranted fears; and second, that he was displaying a chauvenistic attitude toward women.

The first is insulting because it’s stupid. If another pilot were to say, “You’d better stay on the ground today. There are tornados in the forecast and you can see huge thunderheads over the runway,” then I would take that as good advice. But if a non-pilot were to say, “You’d better not fly today because there are terrorists in the bushes,” I’d think he had his head up and locked. A pilot is in a better position to determine the safety of a flight. The boss sounded as if he was speaking out of his own fear and/or lack of knowledge about aircraft.

The second issue would really piss me off if I were female. There are plenty of female pilots, and they all have exactly the same training as men and must pass exactly the same tests by demonstrating exactly the same minimum level of competency. It’s like those “women drivers” jokes people told decades ago.

So the boss was out of line by trying to regulate Broomstick’s perfectly legal and proper off-duty activities, and by displaying a chauvenistic attitude.

Did I sound like I WASN’T pissed off as well? Read my first few posts and remember I did advise to find another job.

I just like to look at an issue from different sides if possible. I’m damned sure NOT justifying the ignorant fucking sexist remarks made by the pig in question.

Sorry Broomstick or Johnny if you think otherwise…fuck the asshole
Better yet let’s hogtie his pig ass and take him out over the Southsea islands and drop him off somewhere far away from intelligent rational folks like the rest of us. :wink:

just kidding, okay…

So let’s see now, Broomstick, you’re all P.O.ed that we’re making you fly at 3000 feet instead of 2400 feet over downtown Chicago.

Damn right, call the ACLU. First thing in the frickin’ morning.