Broomstick is a female type person, Hazen21.
:wally
My father does not and never has liked flying.
However, he’s cool about me doing it, and for my birthday usually kicks in some money - typically writing me a check for an hour’s worth of rental.
No, I am not some woman with a “men are persecuting me” complex. I’m sorry if you got the impression that was what was going on, but it’s not.
But, strictly speaking, since I have been out of my father’s house for 20 years and an independent adult, not to mention 300 miles away, it’s sort of irrelevant how he feels.
My husband, by the way, actually has helped pay for my flying lessons - which should tell you how he feels about it. (Just thought I’d throw that in for the record)
Truthfully, I find non-flying women to be more likely to be hostile towards my hobby, and more intensely hostile, than men.
I am quite well rounded, thank you very much, speaking two foreign languages (one quite obscure), having traveled in Europe, rode/jumped horses, gone wilderness camping, winter sports enthusiest, piano player, former professional bagpiper, published author, and professional artist. And, oh yes, I hold down a job as an executive support staff in order to by the rent.
It just so happens, however, that in THIS rant I am ranting about my flying problems. Please do not mistake the thread for the poster.
??? Why is that?
I have a very good female friend who has had her license for 10+ years. I have never felt any reason to be hostile towards her because of her hobby and I have never noticed or heard of anyone else doing it, female or male.
Just taking a wild guess based on your rant against your boss and your hypersensitivity towards Jack Batty, one would wonder if you maybe see hostility where none exists.
Johnny mostly covered this, but I’ll reiterate that “control” does not mean the airplanes are on a tether. A controller is a voice on a radio. He/she has no physical means to stop a pilot from doing what the pilot wants
And just how are you defining “commercial aviation”? Much of general aviation IS commercial! I mean, I do have to pay money to rent my plane - that’s a commercial transaction. Flight instruction is commercial. Small charter. Arial photography. Pipeline surveys. Tuna/fish spotting. Traffic reporting. Banner towing. Cargo hauling - if you use Fed Ex, UPS overnight, or any other airborne delivery service YOU are using commercial aviation - which ALSO happens to be general aviation. Nor do the big cargo carriers use jets exclusively - Fed Ex flies the largest fleet of Cessna Caravans in the world. Caravans are single-engine airplanes used to pick up and deliver packages from small fields - which is the ONLY way to get overnight service to the US outside of the major cities in an economical manner.
But even as a private pilot, when I fly into an airport with a control tower I have to obey the same traffic regulations and conduct myself in the same manner as any commercial pilot. Indeed, when I was a mere student pilot I flew solo (with permission) into Fort Wayne, Indiana’s airport - I landed after an F-16 and in front of a 737. (I was in the slow n’ pokey Cessna 150). I had to talk to the same controllers and follow the same directions as everybody else. There is NOT a huge distinction between “commercial” and “private” aviation in this country.
I mean, commercial truck drivers on the road aren’t following a completely different set of rules than private car drivers, are they?
Why not?
A jetliner has multiple fuel tanks, many or all of which can be vented to the outside to jettison fuel for an emergency landing. The fuel disperses quickly into a fine mist, then settles to the ground or water below.
Fill one or more of a jet’s fuel tanks with Nasty StuffTM, take-off, vent tank over city… pretty simple, really, requiring no modifications of the plane whatsoever. Just have to fill that tank without arousing suspicion.
For that matter, the folks under the flyways for O’Hare are constantly complaining about a rain of jet fuel messing up their car paint and patio furniture, so in a sense it’s been demonstrated that you could spray objectionable substances from an airliner.
Well, heck, Chicago has a GA airport IN the city. Actually, they have three - Meigs, Midway, and O’Hare. Yes, folks, small planes ARE allowed into big airports. The only caveat is that primary flight training is not allowed at O’Hare or Meigs - but that was true long before 9/11. A Cessna 150 I used to fly - N1478Q - landed at O’Hare 3 times in the mid-90s that I’m aware of (late at night when the big jet traffic eased off). There used to be three flights schools at Midway - they went under during the post-9/11 flight restrictions. But there’s still a dedicated GA area at both Midway and O’Hare. Meigs is entirely GA.
And, of course, there are a number of airports within 100 miles of Chicago. The only one I’m aware of that does NOT have private hangars available is Meigs.
The only public airport in the country entirely closed to general aviation is Washington National - and that only since 9/11.
Actually, DC does have anti-aircraft defenses now. And I was recently listening to an air traffic controller - coincidently the night the war started - and in fact, they now CAN summon fighters “with a push of a button”.
The fighters still need a certain amount of time to get to where they need to be, however.
I have a few theories…
Well, Diane, I’m very happy to learn you are a reasonable person.
OK, one more time - he’s not my boss Got it? He’s the uber-boss. My boss’s boss. VP in charge of the division. But not my immediate supervisor.
OK - next point. No, I don’t think I was imagining the woman who bumped into me at the airport while waiting for her boyfriend, engaged me in pleasent conversation, then, when one of the other pilots referred to me as a pilot, she started screaming at me, spitting on me, and doing a Ruth Buzzie with her handbag on me. After a couple of other people peeled her off me it transpired that she apparently saw all female pilots as some sort of threat to her relationship with her boyfriend (actually, the relationship didn’t last much longer).
Is it a constant thing? No. But it does happen. I’ve ranted about THAT issue on at least one other occassion, so I see no need to repeat it here.
(In case ya’ll haven’t noticed - I HAVE calmed down quite a bit from the OP, gotten more rationale, and ceased to insult people. So if we want to continue a discussion, let’s, but enough of accusing me of being and out-of-control bitch. That only happens sometimes, it’s not a constant state of being)
I’ve started a thread in GD:
Should private aircraft be restricted in the name of “security”?
Broomstick: After reading some of your posts, I’ve come to the conclusion that you meet many more unusual people than I do! 
(“Ruth Buzzi”. Heh.)
And over the vast majority of cities, GA aircraft flying VFR are under virtually the same amount of control as any IFR flight plan passenger jet.
But Chicago probably doesn’t have any air defense. And I doubt they will summon fighters if someone busts the TFR.
Well that’s wonderful, bub, but I don’t see a reason for starting a second Pit thread based on your OP there, so I’ll just stay here, thanks.
I thank broomstick-up-the-ass for joining the word-twisting brigade. You mean, twat, that it was in any way unclear that we’d been discussing commercial passenger jets?
I’ve burned the blazes out of a finger this evening, so I must refrain from a complete response tonight. I’ll be back when I can type for more than ten seconds at a stretch.
Umm… about “being under control”…
In order to fly through O’Hare’s airspace, which overlays most of the city of Chicago, ANY aircraft has to request permission to enter the space. Even if you have an approved instrument flight plan (meaning they’re expecting you) you may not enter that airspace without being granted permission.
So… a VFR pilot, yes, must request permission to enter most of the airspace above Chicago, and during the request must state who they are, where they are, and where they are going before being granted that permission. If they deviate from that stated path they will be noticed and questioned.
Would they call interceptors for busting the TFR? Since 9/11 they have done exactly that for any airplane transgressing flight restrictions or acting suspiously - including going supersonic over the western suburbs on one occassion and scaring the dickens out of the townspeople. Don’t see why they wouldn’t do it this time.
But, no, I haven’t heard about air defense batteries for Chicago.
It’s not a Pit thread, it’s a GD thread - you know, a discussion as opposed to an argument. Of course, if you’d rather bitch you’re in the right spot.
Passenger jets are but a fraction of the commercial aviation that takes place in this country. The term “commercial aviation was used”, and I used it in the broadest sense. If you MEANT ONLY passenger jets you should have been more specific.
It’s not MY fault your use of the language is imprecise. Indeed, the opening sentence of that paragraph can be read as a request for a clarification of how you used the term.
Poor baby.
You nailed that one Broomstick, pilots are SOOO not fucking rich. At my last employer (bankrupt airline #2 for me), the FO’s were getting less than the 1-year dispatchers (think low $30K’s)
While I’m not a pilot myself, I am a licensed dispatcher, so I understand your frustrations. I no sooner get a dispatcher’s license which would allow me to jumpseat, and fucking 9-11 comes and fucks up jumpseating! (not that the big fuckers were very good about allowing dispatchers from other airlines to jumpseat anyway, but the little guys do, and now I can’t ever do it, except for an airline I work for - not fucking likely since I’m getting out of this crazy ass business!)
I know you fly GA and not commercial, but here’s a few industry jokes for you (maybe you’ve heard them already):
Q: What’s the difference between a flight attendant and a jet engine?
A: Jet engine stops whining when you get into the gate.
Woman (calling 911): You have to get someone over here right away, there’s a naked pilot in my front yard!
Operator: How do you know he’s a pilot?
Woman: Simple, he’s got a big watch, a small penis, and he’s stealing my newspaper!
If I file IFR to O’Hare, I still have to request permission to enter the class B airspace?
broomstick I will start by saying “Outstanding Rant!” I’m just sorry that I came so late to the party (normally I’m not a Pit guy, but I had some free time today).
As someone who has flown with female pilots from day one (13 years ago) and almost married one after a 4-year relationship, I say Good-on-ya for your perseverance! I have found the same things you have - namely, fellow pilots are readily accepting of females doing the job. The people who are aghast/nasty/suspicious are the NON-flying people. Wives and girlfriends of pilots are the WORST. But I have seen female captains at my airline get asked “Can you get me a drink?” by passengers. Hey, you fucking idiot, LOOK at the uniform! You have never ONCE asked me for a drink, and I only wear three stripes! Why would you ask someone wearing four stripes for a drink, unless you assumed she was a flight attendant? Why didn’t you assume that I was one?
Also, great job (as usual) with the replies you’ve done regarding flying. Comprehensive, factual and well written. (Golf clap).
And although I think you’ve probably addressed most of them, I must reply to everyone who said something in this thread along the lines of “Sheesh, I know lots of pilots - you’re not so special” and “Just relax - you think you’re better than us because you’re a pilot - let it go” and “Get a life - don’t define yourself by one thing that you do”, etc.
I have two words for all of these people:Go Fly
Don’t go RIDE in an airplane, go FLY one yourself. Discover for yourself the discipline, determination and initiative required to even begin doing this. Then also discover the rewards of this avocation. There is nothing in this world that is a better marriage of art and science than flying. After thirteen years of this I still learn new things and get a giant grin plastered on my face as I climb above the clouds and see a bright sun that will not be seen that day by people on the ground.
If a disconnected senior nincompoop told me to stop doing this “for my own good” I’d tell him to go piss up a fucking rope.
But to finish, I’ll join Morrigoon with the lighthearted approach:
As we’re leaving DFW one early morning, the #1 flight attendant comes up and asks us if we’d like anything to drink. I say OJ, the captain says coffee.
“How do you take your coffee?” the flight attendant asks.
“I like my coffee like I like my women” the captain answers.
“Captain”, she says, “I can’t make you a stupid cup of coffee.”
From the AIM, Controlled Airspace 3-2-3: An ATC clearance is required for all aircraft to operate in the area. Numerous other publications such as advisory circulars clarify “clearance” in this context to mean ATC telling you “You are cleared to enter Class B” or some equivalent variant.
Now, in listening to Chicago Center and various other controlling agencies on my home receiver, it is nothing unusual for a plane to state “with you on XXX” (XXX being a particular frequency) and the responding controller acknowleding their presence, then giving the clearance without being asked. Or even responding with “NXXXX you are cleared to enter Class B” Requesting clearance doesn’t mean filling out a three page form, it means being told “yes, you can come in”. It’s also very common for a plane to say “with you on XXX” and be told “Standby” - and that means you don’t enter Class B. IFR can be made to wait to enter if there is something going on inside the airspace - and I’ve heard it happen. Sure, most of the time planes on an IFR flight plan are rountinely ushered into Bravo airspace without hesistation… but not always. (And some of them get quite cranky about it) You’re still supposed to go through the song-and-dance.
Doesn’t matter what you’re flying, you’re not to be in Class B without ATC permission.
:smack:
Serves me right for posting at 4 am.
My husband - who is not a licensed pilot but knows quite a bit - just asked “Doesn’t filing an IFR flight plan count as asking permission to enter an airspace?” Yes, that is also correct. And having the flight plan accepted would imply clearance to enter Class B, just as being cleared to go to a runway at an airport implies clearance to cross all taxiways and runways between you and your destination.
Either way - you’re still asking permission. And you still have to wait for it to be granted.
When you show up to enter the Class B and identify yourself if the ATC guy/gal can’t find your flight plan, you don’t get to enter. If this doesn’t happen often - well, they’re organized people and they know their stuff.
(I want to know how an RC model and ultralight guy learned so darn much about IFR operations…)
Oh, and one final update (at least for now):
While Mr. “I Know What’s Best For Everyone Else” has cancelled all his business travel… he still isn’t coming into the office. No, he’s decided to work from home.
I’m beginning to think he’s a gutless wonder. Of course, we underlings still have to show up downtown. Makes you wonder if we’re viewed as expendable, or would be “acceptable collateral damage” in the event something bad does happen.
Huh. Wonder if his home office is under his bed.
I just saw this Air Force advertisement starring a kid and his remote control plane over the years, leading to a Predator drone.
I’m now, thanks to this thread, imagining a sky full of 747s on tether strings.
Broomstick, he shouldn’t have the authority to tell you not to fly. Maybe I’m wrong, but f I were you, I would research into filing complaints with any organizations he belongs to. Surely there’s a clause in the American Medical Association contract saying their doctors can’t use their authority for matters not medical related? Ditto for the state board of medicine.