If the commute is 10 minutes, and you leave 30 minutes early, does this mean you arrive 20 minutes early most days? If so, do you get an early start on the day? If you are a few minutes late in arriving, do you make up the time at the end of the day? If the answer to these is yes, then you can dope-slap the offending manager.
I’m working on an assignment now where a 10 hour workday is low-average. No one seems to complain about lateness when it’s you consider a good day to be out by 7:30, especially considering the majority of the commutes are 50 minutes plus.
I think that busting someone for taking too long at an urgent care visit is exceedingly petty, notice or no notice.
So glad you approve of chest pais as a legitimate excuse for missing work. Too bad you’re not my boss. And I never said that I thought I was having a heart attack. My chest hurt when I breathed too deeply. I thought I had pulled a muscle while lifting weights. Then my heart started racing unnaturally from very mild exertion (walking from my desk to the restroom). I knew these things were not symptoms of a heart attack, so I chose to wait until my lunch hour (about two hours) precisely so I would minimize my time away from work. I was actually tying to be considerate of my company’s expectations and the thanks I get for it is to have it included in a tardy report.
Did you not read this?
I did advise her immediately. She put it on the master Outlook calendar for the department. She sent it out in the daily “who’s going to be out” email that goes out. She knew where I was and why I was there and still slammed me for it. I think it’s shitty to harangue someone who’s sick for having a long doctor’s appointment when she knew all along where I was.
Two of the “tardies” were the medical-related late back from lunch. So I was actually only late getting to work in the morning 5 times in 87 days. If you’re going to think being late that number of days out of 87 is so awful, please be appalled at the correct number of days. And if we’er going to be completely hyper-technical about it, it was more like 5 days out of 95-100 days since the four months in question were more like 4 months and 2 weeks. I’d have posted exact date ranges but I didn’t realize it was going to become this much of an issue.
Besides, I said from the second paragraph of my OP that I am aware it is my responsibility to be at work during my scheduled hours, so everyone clucking their tongue and going "it’s you’re responsibility to be at work on time can bite your tongues, hard. The pitting is not about the idea of being held accountable for working my schedule. It is about the pettiness of what constituted this so-called “pattern of abuse,” the shitty way my boss went about it and her refusing to take responsibility for her own actions while chiding me for my supposed irresponsibility.
Oh and
I’ve only been a supposed “problem employee” since this bitch became the boss. Before that, I was considered a top performer in my department and the recipient of a number of comments from my boss and other department members complimenting me on my performance and ability. My performance evaluation last year was the highest possible. So, since I’m the same person and since my performance and attendance has stayed pretty much the same (and I might add since I’m not the only one in the department she’s clashing with), I kind of have to think that the one variable that’s actually changed significantly, the identity of my boss, might be the major contributing factor to the change in perception of my performance.
I have to side with Otto here. The boss is a bitch.
Normally, I have no patience for late people. Just recently though, one of the nicest and hardest working people I work with has her job threatened because she was 10 minutes late.
A) She’s rarely late. She actually stopped going to her after heart attack therepy because it was interfering with work.
B) She was late because there are only 2 roads she can take to get to work and both had road crews blocking them.
C) She never gets her full hour lunch because her bitch coworker (and the bosses favorite) regularly leaves 10 minutes early and comes back 10 minutes late.
D) The boss has treated her like crap ever since she had her heart attack, which by the way, she planned just to piss him off.
So, normally late workers piss me off because I have to cover for them but ever since this happened, I realize that sometimes the boss is just a bitch.
Otto: if your performance has been as good as you say, you should have no trouble finding a new job. Your past performance should speak for itself. Good luck.
I believe what he was saying was that if you had the forethought to wait til lunch, you should have told your supervisor that you were going at lunch, as in, before you went.
Hey Otto, get over it !!
When you accepted the job I bet you said yes to everything they asked of you. Now that you have the job you can treat them like shit. I don’t think so.
Speaking from the employers perspective. We have policies and expectations we are directed to ensure. And ‘hello’ we have hearts too. It’s so bloody annoying when we employee people and all we ask is that they behave professionally during the hours of their employment, come on time, dress appropriately, put in some effort and be open to feedback. Our whole lives do not revolve around our employees and quite honestly most of my 2000 employees WANT to work hard have fun and make some money. You wouldn’t last long with me and my team.
If you’re such a grown up, then quit the bitchin and get on with your job and stop making your bosses life hell.
Late is late. More than 6 in 6 months would leave me no choice but to write you up.
Emphasis mine. Which is it Otto? At a minimum you owe Lisa an apology. And then we have this gem:
You referred to “chest pains” 4 times prior to telling us it wasn’t a heart attack scare. Was this intentional? On one hand you are asking for some slack because you were in an “urgent care facility” with “chest pains” – basking in the obvious image that puts in people’s heads, and the other hand you admit you didn’t think the condition was serious, you didn’t let your boss know even though you planned the visit, and by the time you did phone you were already late getting back. Kiss your boss this morning – she had cause to fire you long ago.
It was just what I said it was. Seven times late being at work, two of which were the medical-related late back from lunch. As for “basking in the obvious image” of chest pains, what the condition was isn’t particularly important to my point. It could have been vomiting or a twisted ankle or whatever. My point remains that regardless of the condition I did advise my boss I would be late the first time (not soon enough for your taste, fine, but notified her nonetheless) and she knew exactly where I was the second time, yet she still pettily included them. I get that being on time is my responsibility. I never said it isn’t. I refer yu yet again to paragraph two of the OP. The pitting is about the manner of my boss, not that I want absolution from the Teeming Millions for being late. I’ve explained this three or four times now. I’m not going to explain it again.
I don’t think anybody is going to convince Otto that he deserves the heat he got.
My environment is more like Superstar’s. We either train our Ottos to act professionally or we dump them. Most are smart enough to eventually catch on. Some are cronic and are given the wonderful opportunity to seek employment elsewhere. The cronic ones, like Otto, firmly believe they are being treated unfairly…after repeated violations…after repeated warnings…even as they are lead out the door.
Horseshit. You clearly told us you had 2 absences in addition to 7 lates. Do I need to quote your own words for you again? **"This “pattern is made manifest in being absent twice and late seven times over a four-month period.”**Absences = 2, lates = 7. If one or the other post is an error, just say so, but don’t indignantly tell me it ‘was just as you said it was’ as if it were clear as day - you are the one giving the conflicting reports.
The manner of your Boss is fine based on your story here. You’re a chronically late, unforthcoming excuse-monger who most certainly does have a pattern of abuse. Suck it up and look within.
Ack. Believe it or not, I did pass 4th grade math. I know what 4 months is, I swear! Make that 9 out of 80 (or 87) days! So, he’s late or absent 1 out of every 10 days.
Now we can argue back and forth whether being late 7 out of 87 days is “constantly” late, “occasionally” late or “seldomly” late. What matters is what his boss and employer think. His boss has indicated that 7 tardies and 2 absences in 87 days is excessive. That may make her bitchy, but it doesn’t negate the fact that he has to take corrective action if he wishes to keep his job.
This exact thing happened to my husband at work and they called an ambulance. Turns out he was having a panic attack, not a heart attack. But let me tell ya, when they roll you out of the office on a stretcher no one questions whether it’s a legitimate absence. (Keep that in mind for future reference…)
Either way, if Otto thought he was having a heart attack, then he should have notified his supervisor and left immediately (undoubtedly with her concern and sympathy). If he thought it was something innocuous like a pulled muscle, then he should have gone to Urgent Care AFTER work.
Can’t resist posting. It’s the day before Turkey Day, the office is slow… what the heck.
I’m in a new position now, but up until a couple months ago, I was a manager and had to present such documentation to a couple employees. Some observations which may or may not be relevant to Otto’s case:
On what planet are you NOT expected to be at work on time, every single day? Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
I noticed that my biggest tardy problems came from those employees who were younger than 30, usually younger than 25. For some reason, there seems to be a false sense of entitlement amoung the younger professionals. Perhaps these people don’t know about “paying your dues” and slowly working your way up to privilege. I dunno… I just don’t understand why the younger staff members couldn’t be bothered to just show up on time. Nor why they couldn’t be bothered to actually make a visible effort to make up any missed time. I offered my employees flex time, whether they earned it or not (perhaps that’s where the sense of entitlement came from – my own fault, of course). If you showed up at 8:15, you could work until 5:15, then we’re even and I won’t include that day on my documentation.
Being a manager sucks. Even if your boss agrees with you that the policy is petty and stupid, and even if she thinks you are the bomb AND a bag of chips, she still is professionally obligated to support and enforce company policy. That’s why managers make the big bucks. It’s also why we get claim checks for our souls. (I got mine back when I resigned!)
I agree with Otto that this manager was a bit squeamish about taking responsibility for her actions. She could have discussed this more openly with him, and with a bit more understanding and compassion. On the other hand, I don’t know how many people report to her so I’m going to give her a break. She could have 50 employees and 10 of them are demonstrating attendance issues. Now she spends her entire day dealing with that instead of getting all her other work done. Eight of those ten employees will hassle her even though she’s just trying to do her job. Whether she’s doing it poorly is irrelevant.
I guess I’m in BubbaDog’s camp here. Sorry Otto. While I agree that your manager is a bit spineless (sounds like a new or young manager), that doesn’t excuse your lack of professionalism. If you’re really that great an employee, go find a job where they let you come and go as you please, whenever you feel like it. And then let me know where that job is, so I can apply there as well.
It seems to me Otto has a combative attitude. He doesn’t sound like the type of person who tries to work with people to solve problems and better the situation…instead, he focuses on the negative and talks about how he suffers all the time and how nobody treats him fairly. Therefore, he has to be abrasive and obnoxious to the people who he perceives to the causes of his problems. Doesn’t sound like the type of workmate I’d want to have around.
Don’t want to continue the dog-pile, but as an employer, I have to side against the OP.
There’s a young lady in my office that has an attendance record similar to Otto, only she is very pleasant. I still let her know that I expected an improvement or she’d not have a job much longer. And I actually LIKE the girl! She’s pleasant, and when she’s at work, is very productive. Never have to ask her to do anything, she’s always on the spot.
But the fact is, she’s not there when I need her to be, and that puts a strain on me, as well as her co-workers. And I have a line of people that would love to have her job.
That’s the bottom line for most managers. We don’t like to bust people’s balls, but we have to weigh our own employment against yours, and there’s also the fact that there is no shortage of people that actually want the jobs we offer. Your series of excuses would not endear you to me at all. ‘Pulled a muscle lifting weights’ indeed. Unless your work involves heavy lifting, it can wait. There’s always heavy traffic? then leave home earlier. Jeez.
Don’t like being a wage slave? Then go pan for gold or something, just don’t expect to eat regularly. Hell, your supervisor is just as much an employee as you are- except that she’s evaluated on how well she keeps dead-asses like you in line.
As for your comment about it being this supervisor- was the previous supervisor male? older? I am not accusing you of anything, we just have a similar situation here in my office. My supervisor was new to us, and one of the older gentlemen in the office suddenly developed all sorts of disciplinary/productivity issues. A lot of that was him not wanting to be bossed around by a woman, and a young one at that. So what’s really different about your current supe? How different is she than the last?
Yeah, why is that? There is a woman in my office who has an average of 14 (yes, I said 14) sick days per year and is late at least once a week. I am at work at least 30 minutes early every day and haven’t had a sick day in over two years. When I ask to take a long lunch hour for a personal reason (I do this probably once or twice a year) the boss lets me. When she asks to do the same, the boss says no. Of course she says the boss is playing favorites!
I would bet it has more to do with older workers getting a few talkings to in their irresponsible past, than them just being more responsible to begin with. Well, that and the fact that older people generally have much more riding on a job than a kid; family, children, that sort of thing.
It’s easy to be irresponsible if people aren’t counting on you.
And the two medical lates were not the absences. Two different things.
Previous supervisor (now department manager) is female and older than the current supervisor. Current supervisor was promoted into the position from within the department and has in the opinion of more than one of us had some measure of difficulty adjusting to her new role.
And even though I said I wasn’t going to explain this again, I suppose for the amazingly slow and stupid jackasses out there (yes I am looking at you Waverly) I know that it’s my responsibility to be at my job on time. I am not contesting or disputing in any way shape nor form that it is my responsibility to be at my job on time. I am not pitting my boss because she expects me to be at my job on time.
Because it’s not that important to them. Maybe because at 23, work and career and the great rat-race to the middle of the ladder does not yet consume their lives.
I have to side with Otto. Unless he’s on a trading desk or works in a call center or does shift work, what’s the big deal if he occassionally shows up at 9:15 instead of 9:00am sharp? One of the nice things about being an educated professional is that you don’t have to be treated like a clock-punching child. It is expected that you are on time when you need to be on time but you don’t need some mother-hen tapping her foot and clucking at the wall clock if you show up a minute after the school bell.
You want to babysit children? Go teach elementary school.
Any yet you’re bitching because your supervisor, whose job rides on how well she keeps everyone else in line, had a meeting with you to tell you that you weren’t meeting company standards for being on time. Look, either you accept that it’s your responsibility to be there and ready to go at the stroke of whenever it is you have to be there and that if you don’t meet the company’s expectations in this manner they have to take corrective actions, or you sit around and whine because they took said corrective actions. There’s no way to claim you accept full responsibility and yet still bitch about people expecting you to live up to their standards.
For the record, the days that you were at the doc-in-the-box do indeed count as lateness without warning. Calling to say you’ll be late at the moment you’re supposed to be starting work wouldn’t cut it at any job I’ve ever held. If you’d called ten or fifteen minutes earlier (and let’s face it, you knew by then there was no way you’d be back at work on time), your ass would have been covered.
