Ok, I know that what we actually have of the Illead ends after Achilles gives Hectors body back. In fact the “Trojan Horse” is only known by references, not Homers actual words (I am assuming that Homer was real for this question). But we also have other period references which tell us what happnes after, and I KNOW Achilles didn’t die like that.
Someone want to tell me/us the differences between Illead & Troy- esp the ending?
I noticed HUGE deviations from the classic story.
If I remember correctly, Helen does not escape and is returned to Menalaus (who did not die).
To me, the huge change was the death of Agamemmnon. According to the “real” story, he ends up getting killed by his wife Klytemenstra (sp?) and daughter (Elektra) in his bath tub, partially because he sacrificed his daughter Iphigenia (sp?) to the Gods in order to get fair winds to sail from Greece to Troy.
Achilles’ mother did NOT want him to go to war and had hidden him among her maidens, dressed as a woman. His mother was so determined that he shouldn’t die that she dipped him as a baby into the River Styx, all parts of him were immortal except his heel where she gripped him.
I was also surprised that they skipped over the part where Odysseus was relunctant to go to Troy. In the story, he faked crazy, sowing his field with salt. The person sent to fetch Odysseus grabbed his infant son and put him in front of the plow. Since Odysseus really wasn’t crazy, he stopped and was forced to go to Troy.
I also missed the Gods. The war was started because the Goddess of Discord made Paris judge a beauty contest (Athena promised victory at war, Hera promised power, Aphrodite promised the love of the most beautiful woman in the world, poor Helen really had no choice). Paris was much more a wuss in the story, the only reason he succeeded in killing Achilles was because Aphrodite guided his arrow to the one weak place.
Other things I missed - no Cassandra 
You don’t really want to know what happened to Adromache and little Astynx (sp?). I was also surprised by the absence of Hecuba (Priam’s wife).
Also, the Greeks sieged Troy for 10 years, the movie makes it seem like a week!
Wasn’t there another story where he disguised himself as a woman so he didn’t have to go, but the messenger put out some weapons and cloth on a table, and he revealed he was a man when he reached for the weapons?
No Cassandra and no Diomedes means I have little interest in this movie.
I consider Diomedes to be the Faramir of the Iliad. A good strong noble supporting character.
Dante can kiss my ass for having him burn in Hell.
Nope, that was how they found Achilles hiding with his mother’s maidens 
Homer makes reference to the Trojan Horse in the Odyssey. I’m pretty sure the references are in Book 4.
For the record:
Homers story of the Trojan war and the Odessey has to be by far one of the most controversial stories that has ever been told in all the history of mankind. I say this because I am very confident that there are very few people that are familiar with it that would disagree. There are some that doubt that Homer ever even existed. From the Odessey alone I myself have either read stories or seen movies that had endings ranging anywhere from:
Penelope, the wife of Ulysses (or Odysess as some call him) waiting faithfully for his return and embracing him after his killing of the suitors,
To her having sex with all of the suitors to spare the life of her son Telemacus,
To her abandoning her throne to search for Ulysses never to return leaving him to find an empty palace upon his homecoming,
To her comitting suicide,leaving her son to rule
*To her choosing a suitor, falling in love with him, and having Ulysses killed when he returned,
To him returning to the sea to live out his final days with the enchanted Calypso…
To him being changed into a swine and eaten by Circe
To him being killed by the Lotus Eaters
To him being killed by polyphemus the Cyclops
To him being drowned at sea by Poseidon
(I could go on and on and on)
If I had the names of all the books and magazines I’ve read over the years that told these stories of the Illiad, believe me I would cite all of them in a heartbeat. As for those that are familiar with this trilogy, I am very sure you can easily relate to all of the endless inconsistancies. Of all the times I have read these stories, I don’t think there has been a single time I’ve either read or seen the same story told the same way twice :dubious:
Oh and by the way, I haven’t had a chance to see the movie Troy yet "I’m still coming down from the high I got off of “Shrek 2” 
From (one of) the stories I’ve read about the trojan war, the invading armada was lead by three generals ( Ulysses, Ajax, and Achilles). Achilles was the first to die by being shot in the ankle with a spear that was thrown by Prince Paris (who was the son of King Primus of Troy). Ulysses asked the trojans for a temporay reprieve so that he and his soldiers could remove Achilles body from the battlefield. Afterwards, Ajax and Ulysses got into a heated contest over who was going to inherit Achilles armor. This lead to a contest of strength for which Ulysses won. Ajax, who had never be defeated in contest before, grew mad with envy and later comitted suicide leaving Ulysses to command the armada for the rest of the siege.
What storyline did the movie follow?
Starguard, I seriously don’t know what you’re talking about. There is controversy over who exactly wrote the Iliad and the Odyssey, and about whether Homer actually existed, but the story of the Odyssey (note spelling) is fairly well set. I’m sure there can be different translations, and changes made for cinematic effect, but in any fairly faithful translation goes something like this:
Odysseus returns home to find the suitors hanging around Penelope. He eventually reveals that he is Odysseus, and convinces Penelope after a while more. Then he slaughters the suitors with the help of Telemachus and aside from a bit of a discussion with the suitors’ relatives, this is the end. Then they all eat icecream and live happily ever after.
Where is all this other stuff coming from?
Here are two movie examples:
For those that have seen these,
This version of ulysses starring Kirk Douglas has an ending where Ulysses comes home, slays the suitors with the help of whats left of his servants, rescues his wife and son, and lives happily ever after
This version tells the story where ulysses returns home as an old man who is too old to fight and motivates his son Telemacus to kill the suitors (all by himself ) for him.
If these two do not satisfy you, I will dig up as many cites as I can find, and post them for all to see (not just movies and websites, but also the name of books and authors that I’ve read as well
Lets try this again
Something is wrong with this
It didn’t post the first reference. here it is again (manually) thats presently being sold on ebay. If ebay postings don’t work in the sdmb, then Ill type it out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=617&item=4190849642&rd=1
There is a 1950’s version starring Kirk Douglas that ends with Ulysses coming home, killing the suitors with the help of all of whats left of his suitors, rescuing his wife and living happily aver after.
Here is one that has an ending showing ulysses being too old to fight and gets his son telemacus to fight for im killing all of the suitors all by himself http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118414 I hope this works this time
** Everyone reading this, please ignore postings #10,#11, & #12**
I’m at the end of my shift and am very tired right now
Starguard, I believe the (literary, not web-related) problem that brings about lambchops’ challenge is your having mentioned the Odyssey by title as “controversial”. Sure there are multiple versions, retelling and spins of the Tale of Ulysses’ Journey, to match the multiple versions, retellings and spins of the Tale of the Trojan War, but the actual plot of the epic poem The Odyssey, as attributed to “Homer”, is not in “controversy”.
(And your links all point me to just one same version)
Sounds like somebody has conflated the story of Odysseus with the story of Acis & Galatea, here.
Thanks…I thought I was conflating the two stories.
Other deviations from the Iliad and related mythos:
[spoiler]The siege went on for ten years before the interesting stuff happened.
Menelaus didn’t get killed by Hector. He lived to a ripe old age with Helen…who didn’t escape out the back with Paris in the post-Iliad story. Hector’s wife Andromache was made into a Greek concubine and his child was thrown from the walls.
Ajax didn’t get killed by Hector either. He went nuts in the post-Iliad story when Achilles’ armor was awarded to Odysseus instead of him and killed himself.
Briseis wasn’t a priestess of Apollo from Troy. She was a captured concubine of Achilles from Lyrnessos. Agamemnon had taken a kidnapped priestess from the temple of Apollo as concubine, and a plague was subsequently set upon the Greeks. Agamemnon agreed to return the priestess, but demamded Briseis as a substitute prize.
Achilles dragged Hector around for several days.
Agamemnon, as mentioned, made it home, but was immediately offed by his wife Clytemnestra[/spoiler]
Starguard, I think there’s some massive confusion here. Just because movies (and romantic poems of the 1800s, and various other retellings) have taken their own slant, doesn’t mean that there’s confusion.
Look, there’s very little confusion about the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, but I’ve read stories where it was done by aliens from another galaxy, where it was done by South Africans from the future with uzis, and you name it. People take a great mythic story and re-interpret it. And POLICE SQUAD shows Lincoln pulling a gun from his vest and shooting back! But that variety of interpretation doesn’t mean that there’s any confusion about the original.
The story of last year of the ten-year long Trojan War is told by Homer, around 850 BC (assuming he really existed), in an epic poem called the Iliad. The Iliad does not mention the sacrifice of Iphigenia, and makes only passing reference to the judgement of Paris. These myths come down to us from other sources, such as 5th Century BC plays by Aeschylus and Euripedes. Presumably, Aeschylus and Euripedes had older traditions and sources, but they are lost to us. We also have the writings of Apollodorus, probably around 100 AD.
The Iliad ends with the funeral of Hector. The story of the death of Achilles and the fall of Troy is found in several ancient sources, including Virgil (roughly 70 - 20 BC) and Sophocles (also 5th Century BC). The fate of the Trojan women is told by Euripedes (and it’s not a happy ending, like in the current movie.)
The story of Odysseus comes almost entirely from the Odyssey, presumably also written by Homer.
These stories were passed down orally, perhaps for centuries, until someone wrote them in a form that has survived. There was a profession of Rhapsodist, people who memorized the poems of others and performed them for audiences.
After the ancient sources, we have dozens of much later writings, re-interpreting these great mythic stories in the Christian era, for instance. Alexander Pope translated the Iliad, and we have romantic poets in the 1800s, like Keats, Byron, Tennyson and Wordsworth, writing poems based on these myths.
It’s not surprise that there are dozens of movie versions, each one trying to re-interpret with their own twist.
Agamemnon was the indisputed general of the generals, so to speak. He lead a loose confederation of other kings and princes, the most significant probably being Odysseus, Ajax, Achilles, and Diomedes. Several of the Greek leaders had been former suitors of Helen before she married Menelaus; so that there would be no bitterness toward the successful suitor, they had all sworn an oath to protect whoever the lucky guy would be. Thus, Menelaus had the sworn loyalty of several powerful kings/princes/etc.
First of the major generals, sure, though this was still pretty late in the war. His death occurs after the Iliad’s narrative has finished, but most traditions depict him getting killed by Paris’s arrow (like Legolas, he was quite an archer, though he had some help from Apollo). In some versions, Achilles is ambushed by Paris after Achilles has a secret rendez-vous with the Trojan princess Polyxena, who has fallen in love with Achilles. Another tradition has Apollo killing Achilles himself.
Pretty much. After Ajax lost to Odysseus (the contest was decided by a jury), Ajax was so angry he contemplated killing his comrades. Athena made him go mad, so he began attacking and slaying sheep, thinking in his mind that they were Odysseus et al. When he recovered his senses he kill himself. Agamemnon stayed the chief commander throughout the war.
The movie differs from the Iliad and other stories about Troy in numerous minor ways, but most significantly in:
a.) playing up the love story between Achilles and Briseis,
b.) making Agamemnon’s motives in the war primarily political
c.) having Menelaus and Agamemnon slain in the war,
d.) letting Achilles survive until the sack of Troy,
e.) having Paris escape with Helen and apparently most of the Trojan women, including Andromache.
f.) no gods!
In the Homeric and other traditions:
a.) there’s some precedence for the love story in Ovid, but Homer’s telling of the Briseis story is fairly unromantic. In all of the traditions, Briseis pretty much fades from the narrative after Patroclus’s death; in some versions, she returns to Troy after Achilles’ death, but nothing else is heard about her.
b.) Agamemnon’s just looking out for his baby brother, who’s been mightily insulted.
c.) Both Menelaus and Agamemnon survive the war, with the former returning to Sparta reunited with Helen, and the latter goes back to a rather less welcome homecoming in Mycenae.
d.) As described above, Achilles is slain before Troy is sacked. He’s not in the Trojan Horse in any version. However, his son, Neoptolemus (son of Deidamia) was present.
e.) Paris is killed before the sack of Troy, by one of Philoctetes’ poisioned arrows. Helen reunites with Menelaus (see c.); Andromache and most of the other Trojan women are taken as slaves by the Greek victors.
f.) lots of gods, who take sides in the war–Athena, Hera, and Poseidon with the Greeks, Aphrodite, Ares, and sometimes Apollo with the Trojans. And don’t forget the battle of Achilles and the river-god Scamander. Many of the heroes on both sides are themselves sons of gods or demi-gods.