Oh Jesus, do you not see the larger point here?
Fucking hell. Let me state it more clearly. Why do we in the the west feel the need to change things in the name of “cultural appropriation”? That doesn’t do any good at all. I’m not saying Hollywood or Netflix or Amazon, which are all American, can’t adapt shit. What I am saying is that the “cultural sensitivity” can ring so hollow it takes away from the work itself. There is a certain patronizing viewpoint at play.
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That’s about 90% of the issue, with the remaining 10% being a question of what is trivializing. I mean, I’ve heard things like white people opening some kind of ethnic restaurant is cultural appropriation by default. Clearly wearing someone else’s ethnic clothing as Halloween costumes is, and so are things like the Atlanta Braves’ Tomahawk chop IMO.
But I’m not so sure that every example of someone in the dominant culture doing something with a minority culture is always cultural appropriation. Let’s take Rick Bayless as an example. He’s a white guy who has essentially devoted his career as a chef and restauranteur to cooking and popularizing Mexican cuisine (not Tex-Mex). He’s lived in Mexico, speaks fluent Spanish, and puts a lot of effort into celebrating Mexican cuisine, not Tex-Mex or some other fusion type cuisine. Personally, I’m not convinced that’s cultural appropriation- he may not be Mexican, but he’s paying their culture and cuisine more than cursory respect through his work. Similarly, as a Texan whose ancestors immigrated to Texas from Germany, I wouldn’t have any problem at all with someone who wanted to make real Texas barbecue, so long as they take it seriously and don’t just call something else Texas barbecue. Intent and execution count more than the ethnicity IMO.
If I had to guess about John Cho being cast as Spike Spiegel, I’d guess it’s more stupidity on the part of the casting people and director- probably something like “Anime? That’s Asian. We should cast John Cho- he’s Asian too.” I really doubt there was more to it than that, honestly. It’s a lot more likely that someone was stupid than anything else.
"Oh and you say it’s wrong to cast an Asian as Spike. Then you say it’s bad they cast a black man as Jet. This is confusing."Jet’s ex partner was black, You see them two on screen, well one’s black, ones not, Doesn’t mean much, but in the U.S. there’s a lazy archetype of the old black ex cop who is :“too old for this shit”
The film is being developed jointly between Marty Adelstein (an American TV producer) and Sunrise Inc., the Japanese animation studio that produced the original anime. So why are you bitching about “people in the west” doing this? Your rants throughout this thread have been pretty ignorant.
ETA: Watanabe, the director of the original series is a creative consultant. He doesn’t seem to have a problem with this. Why do you?
“If I had to guess about John Cho being cast as Spike Spiegel, I’d guess it’s more stupidity on the part of the casting people and director- probably something like “Anime? That’s Asian. We should cast John Cho- he’s Asian too.” I really doubt there was more to it than that, honestly. It’s a lot more likely that someone was stupid than anything else.”
Oh my God, THANK YOU. It’s stupidity and it’s lazy, but more importantly, it’s lazy racism.
He must have been trying to write “cultural approbation”.
(ETA: There’s some amount of room for some ranting about “cultural appropriation”, but this thread doesn’t really seem to be about that.)
Yes to both. The OP may have some legit complaint but I can’t decipher what it is. The context in his head is clear to him, but he’s yet to share enough of that context with the rest of us. Admittedly what I know about anime is how to spell it, so I’m a particularly blank slate for understanding his issue.
Hence my flippant response.
Although in “appropiation” I hear echoes of “expiation”, “propitiation”, etc. A sense that we’ll remove, heal, or improve something by grabbing it towards us. A funny pushmepullyou of a word.
There’s another “…piation” word on the tip of my fingers that’s an even better fit that I can’t quite drag to the forefront of my brain. Stupid brain. Anyone?
Sorry I got a phone call. Your rant is important to me. You make two more uncited claims here.
#1 Jet’s ex partner is black
#2 Jet is not black.
I’ll need cites for both- and I don’t accept ‘well this guy is darker than Jet’ as proof of anything. Black people come in a wondrous variety of shades.
expropriation maybe?
And you’re aware the English dub voice actor for Jet is a black man?
No. My whole point was “…piation” and the inadvertant silliness that ensued from the OP typoing “appropiation” which isn’t a word but almost oughta be.
Something sort like along the lines of
“Appropiation” is when a parent grabs the toy away from one kid so the other one won’t whine about them not sharing. IOW “I’ll make it (some condition) better by taking it (some thing) away from you.” With bonus points for doing it roughly or high-handedly.
Or maybe I’m the only one who sees the joke / non sequitur here.
Expropiation then.
Cultural appropriation and cultural (in)sensitivity are different things, and I really think you might be a bit confused about what cultural appropriation is?
No, I don’t think so either.
Yeah, I doubt the complaint is legit given that it’s being communicated in a heavy-on-the-FNC buzzwords fashion, but it’s very hard to say.
I don’t think that makes any sense if this is true:
This basically seems to be an evidence-free rant straight outta toxic fandom. Making assumptions about the motives for a casting decision and then using those assumptions to complain about it — and, for good measure, the larger trend it represents — is just getting old, guys.
My annoyance is that they are doing this at all. I have yet to see a live action adaptation of an anime that did it any justice.
Though I won’t complain about casting as long as Einstein stays a Pembroke Welsh Corgi. If they use a Cardigan, I’m gonna be upset.
“FNC”?
Not even Cutey Bunny?
Forgive me LSLGuy, it has been a while since I’ve been on the SDMB. I don’t seem to be able to reply with quote. I think that might have created some confusion. Too many
conversations going on at once.
I rather like the podcast “Imaginary Worlds”, and I was listening to an episode about Cowboy Bebop and the host casually said that said that casting an Cho was a good thing against “cultural appropriation.” I think that’s bullshit, and I am trying to open the floor to what is and what is not “cultural appropriation”. But it is the pit, so well, I suppose I should be thankful nobody has thrown any personal insults at me.
And if they do, I wish them to become a medical miracle as the first human being to develop taste buds in their buthole.
My point is this: “Cultural appropriation” is bullshit. The entire concept is inherently biiased. The concept posits that one culture taking from another is a bad thing. It’s not. It’s SO not. Fucking hell, that’s how cultures grow. And we in the west forget that. - even us liberals forget that. I’m using Cowboy Bebop as an example because it’s an example - nothing more. We have have a Japanese guy using American culture to make a piece of art. It’s Jazz and cowbows, for christsake. Cool as hell, But for some reason there are some well meaning idiots that can’t process that somebody from a different culture can tell a story with tropes from our culture. And because they can’t process that, they try to force it back in the name of “cultural appropriation”.
FNC = Fox News Channel
Sorry, Fox News Channel. Or whatever source taught the OP about cultural appropriation in such a half-assed way. (It’s … bad? And involves people complaining about white people doing things?)
Seriously people? I am seriously asking you to imagine yourself as an artist from another culture, and that makes you think I’m Tucker Carlson? I am asking you to believe that America is not the be all end all, and we have an unfortunate tendency to think we are, It’s the “White man’s burden” fallacy. Do you not have reading comprehension?